Autogain and limiter, how's it work

[mostapha]

Ableton Live doesn't have auto-gain, and I haven't seen an auto-gain that really works well. The replay gain standard is okay, but DJ software doesn't use it. Also, perceived loudness is one thing, but when you're working with digital audio, you never want to touch 0dB unless you're using a system that does floating-point math to cheat more headroom out of the system (like Live). I don't know whether or not Traktor works that way, but I'd guess it does. That would still only give you a few dB…not tracks that peak at +15 like a lot of modern hip hop and pop.

I always use a limiter. Most of my tracks end up being played at -3 to -15dB to keep them from clipping and a brick wall limiter (described above) with a few dB of gain in front of it helps a) make different songs sound right together, b) helps if you screw up your faders, c) evens out some gain differences caused by time-stretching algorithms that depend on the speed of the track and any harmonic adjustments, and d) restores some of the 'presence' that the loudness war has conditioned us to expect using a model of how analog gear responds to hot signals instead of the horrendous noise that most sound cards produce when abused like this.

Using a limiter instead of gain knobs is flat-out lazy. But it's a laziness that I prefer given the other benefits. I never used limiters until I started really paying attention to my gain structures and realized why my digital mixes sounded flatter than before I used a computer.

It's not there so much for a, b, and c (above)…it's there mostly for d. And it works.

[djalexlaine]

yeah, limiter should be used to ensure you dont blow amps, not to keep volume level. i never use auto gain programs to edit the files. i will use traktors autogain function when mixing internally (but i still check it) but if i am mixing externally i manually adjust them on the mixer.

[Sanderbongertman]

Def not cheating.

If you playing MP3's, you never REALLY know if they are what they claim to be in regards to quality (unless you bought them).

PN etc are good tools to make sure that they all have a similar level.

Not entirely sure how the auto gain works, but its seems pretty good most of the time.

I use it and then make myself use the EQ's more for getting the levels nice.

I find its better this way.

Why's that? You wouldn't believe how much crappy and poorly mastered music there is on beatport.

[sarasin]

Crappy badly mastered.....this has nothing to do with the cut of the MP3.

If the master copy of the track was a wav file.....original from the artist....then its WAV quality. That's the Audio Quality....not the production quality.

If it is bounced down to a 320 mp3, then its a 320 mp3.

Now if you take a 196 mp3....and save it as a 320mp3.....its not really an 320mp3 is it?

Its like wittling down a piece of wood.

Once you taken away from the original copies quality...there is no putting it back.

So you can DL 320mp3's from other sites for free etc....but you will not know if its been buggered around with. it could say 320....but it could have been cut from a 196mp3.

At least with Beatport, you should be getting REAL 320 quality.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the production quality.

[Sanderbongertman]

ah you mean it like that, you're absolutely right

[sarasin]

[photojojo]

Not sure I can really contribute anything else to this thread though, you guyses is pretty smart so I'll just make a statement.

I use auto gain, I mix in my headphones and my main is always at LEAST -8.

[sarasin]

hey Photojojo!

Yeah....that is the safest bet that!

I hate mixing in my headphones.....but have been monitoring the Master Out lately...AFTER cueing up the track etc.

So I can hear it coming in over the other track.....this allows me to get it sounding real sweet.