The reason WHY A&H sounds warmer than Pioneer

[loverocket]

Exokinetic what the hell are you talking about?

The EQ's are just parametric with selected frequencies to cut or boost.

What does this have to do with the warmth of the sound?

Depending on the track you are playing one mixer might have an advantage over the other (the parametric frequency and bandwidth setting), but as far as the overall sound the EQ has nothing to do with it. Also, do some research on bandwidth. You can have two mixers that have the bass knob set at 200 Hz, but they can have a wider or narrower bandwidth. Which will create a different cut or boost.

"Pioneer sets the low knob to everything 70hz and below. NO! It will also affect frequencies above 70 Hz. Depending on how wide the bandwidth is. It could affect frequencies all the way up to 600Hz.

Then the high knob to everything 13000hz and above.

Meaning the mid band knob has everything from 70hz to 13000hz! < THIS IS WRONG. see above.


That leaves it with very little room for sonic manipulation of any music through EQing.


Whereas an Allen & Heath runs the 3 band EQ in the Xone:42 like:


Low: 420hz and down
Mid: Center point at 1200hz
High: 2700hz and up

This gives you a VERY warm low band, as well as giving you MUCH greater manipulation ability of the high band.

Allen & Heath's Xone:92 with its 4 band eq is run thus:

Low: 100hz and down
low-mid: center point at 250 hz
high-mid: center point at 2500hz
High: 10000hz and up "

And the fact that Allen and Heath have 2 mixers with completely different settings means they don't even know which is "better" . It's just personal preference on which twisty knobs flavors you prefer.

[loverocket]

Here's an example of 3 frequencies with 3 different bandwidths.
100Hz (boost) has a wide bandwith (as you can see it affects a lot of frequencies above and below 100 Hz.)
at 1Khz (boost) you see a very narrow bandwith.
and the last one you see a medium level bandwidth (cut).
EQ.jpg

All DJ mixers use wide bandwidths so the photo below is what your sound manipulation would look like if the mixer you were using had the bass knob set at 30 Hz turned to +3. The mid knob set at 800 Hz turned to -3. And the high knob set at 18,000 Hz set to +3.

eq_2.jpg

[keithace]

you probably shouldn't argue with a six year old thread...

[loverocket]

fair enough. but do you get what I'm saying?

[djproben]

Good point - interesting that it wasn't mentioned 6 years ago.... This thread continues to be the most epic necrobump ever.

I do think the OP's point could still be correct, however; he just overstated the effects of the changes. Either way though different EQ points will make the EQ adjustments sound different between the two mixers, and one could be subjectively considered "warmer." Presumably though they'd sound pretty much the same when the EQ is flat however, and that may or may not be true of the two mixers. Maybe someone who owns both wants to do some experiments?

[loverocket]

necrobump. lol

i thought that's what they call a corpse that died of a viagra overdose at the morgue.

[rhom6us]

I ran some white noise through traktor and sidechained the results back into a Pro-Q to compare.

Here's the control run:
asdfc.jpg

Here's with a Z-ISO bass kill:
asdfb.jpg

...and just eyeballing a match:
asdf.jpg

Looks like 300hz 24db/octave, then the whole damn thing is boosted 6db (I'm dubious about that boost part, surely I'm hitting a limiter or something. Will double check later).

I can do more, what's in demand?

[loverocket]

can you get one with the mid? and do one at -3 and -6 and full kill.

and not z-iso. just classic.
thanks.

[GHOSTEA]

And the idea that an analog mix bus is superior to digital one is ludicrous, especially (but not exclusively) with digital sources.

You have entire industries to take up with this claim. Everyone who makes analog summing boxes (where the whole point is to sum"digital sources", anyone who makes and uses analog mixing boards (Neve, SSL), even many plugin creators who try to mimic the sound. (Waves NLS is one of many)

Analog summing having non linearitys, effects on cross talk, etc is pretty well established.
Analog EQ causes phase shift, so does digital, its how eq works. (although there are digital EQ called Linear Phase EQ which do not cause phase shift BUT they can cause an artifact called pre-ringing to transients) Analog EQ is however known for having effect even when set to 0.

Edit: I just came here looking up the frequency points for a xone mixer so I could make a similar 4 band EQ in ableton. Thank you very much to the OP for posting these. And as others have pointed out, the curve/Q of these shelf and bell EQs is unknown, So just because high band is specified at 13k on pioneer, doesn't mean that band affects only 13k and above.

and just wanna say i love mixing on the xone92s as well as pioneer. For a 3 band eq i think the pioneer works fine, but i do love having two low eqs. people call it two mid eqs (250hz?) but it feels more like a second bass eq to me.

[Reticuli]

You have entire industries to take up with this claim. Everyone who makes analog summing boxes (where the whole point is to sum"digital sources", anyone who makes and uses analog mixing boards (Neve, SSL), even many plugin creators who try to mimic the sound. (Waves NLS is one of many)

Analog summing having non linearitys, effects on cross talk, etc is pretty well established.
Analog EQ causes phase shift, so does digital, its how eq works. (although there are digital EQ called Linear Phase EQ which do not cause phase shift BUT they can cause an artifact called pre-ringing to transients) Analog EQ is however known for having effect even when set to 0.

Edit: I just came here looking up the frequency points for a xone mixer so I could make a similar 4 band EQ in ableton. Thank you very much to the OP for posting these. And as others have pointed out, the curve/Q of these shelf and bell EQs is unknown, So just because high band is specified at 13k on pioneer, doesn't mean that band affects only 13k and above.

and just wanna say i love mixing on the xone92s as well as pioneer. For a 3 band eq i think the pioneer works fine, but i do love having two low eqs. people call it two mid eqs (250hz?) but it feels more like a second bass eq to me.

There's also a whole industry dedicated to things like $10,000 speaker wires and audiophile rocks. There are plenty of studios who buy those, too.