The reason WHY A&H sounds warmer than Pioneer

[djivobutnot]

Nice tread!
But: everything in the audio signal path will colorize it. I mean everything. Even an RCA cable. Some people can hear it, some people can' t. There is one very important part too: most of the folks out there can do a blind test and differentiate Pioneer and Allen & Heath sound, and some of them will like Pio' s more, some will like A&H. This is natural - we all hear differently!
Now a pure speculation: DJ who usually plays mostly electronic music will feel Pioneer mixers more like home, looking for that flat, sterile, and slightly distorted at hi-end sound coming from it. On the other hand we have a DJ who plays music coming from real instruments, with vocals,and with real, not over-maximized dynamics - that DJ will naturally choose the sound of Allen & Heath, cause it gives the right perception of natural warmth, and really accurate sound stage. End of speculation!
Now, don' t get me wrong, I am not the audio purist I want to be, but all the DJ mixers sounds differently one from another, but usually we are not in the right conditions to hear all these differences.

[exokinetic]

Nice tread!
But: everything in the audio signal path will colorize it. I mean everything. Even an RCA cable. Some people can hear it, some people can' t. There is one very important part too: most of the folks out there can do a blind test and differentiate Pioneer and Allen & Heath sound, and some of them will like Pio' s more, some will like A&H. This is natural - we all hear differently!
Now a pure speculation: DJ who usually plays mostly electronic music will feel Pioneer mixers more like home, looking for that flat, sterile, and slightly distorted at hi-end sound coming from it. On the other hand we have a DJ who plays music coming from real instruments, with vocals,and with real, not over-maximized dynamics - that DJ will naturally choose the sound of Allen & Heath, cause it gives the right perception of natural warmth, and really accurate sound stage. End of speculation!
Now, don' t get me wrong, I am not the audio purist I want to be, but all the DJ mixers sounds differently one from another, but usually we are not in the right conditions to hear all these differences.

Totally agree!


I just really wanted to "peel back the layers of the onion" so to speak on that concept.

Was it really just the fact that there are different components in the Pioneer vs. the A&H and others, and that those components are assembled with a different degree of specialization and quality control.

Or was there something more to it than that.

And what I found, was the EQ frequencies and bandwidths had a lot to do with that tonal difference.

And so I wanted to hear the communities response to my findings. And I must say I am pleased with the results. A lot of good perspectives and information.

[Rukks]

Can you set eqs to xone on the s4 or only filters?

[exokinetic]

From everything I have read from users on the NI forums and here, no, Traktor S4 doesn't have the ability to use the custom EQ bands found in Traktor Pro/ Scratch Pro.

): bummer.

And I have had a hard time tracking down the specifics on the default traktor internal EQ, witch is what the S4 uses.

[djproben]

There is info in the Traktor bible about how much sound is cut at the different settings but not the frequencies. It's noticeably different in the different settings -- I'm playing around with it now and I like the Nuo setting best at the moment. None of the settings are full kill though which is strange. I wonder if this is something that will be updated some time in the software -- being able to set the EQs more precisely would be an amazing feature. This thread has me seriously considering the Behringer mixer; I had no idea it had that feature.

edit --> didn't realize it was a feature of the Evos either -- is that true for the Evo 4 or just the 5?

[exokinetic]

edit --> didn't realize it was a feature of the Evos either -- is that true for the Evo 4 or just the 5?

Very good question, I believe I was reading the 5's product sheet when I read that, I will check the 4 right now...

And my Traktor Bible should be here Friday this week, WOOT!

Bummer, it appears the Evo 4 does not have the adjust-ability.

Posted out of Evo 4 manual:

Tones:
BASS -30/+10dB (200Hz)
MID -25/+10dB (200 & 6,5kHz)
TREBLE -30/+10dB (6,5kHz)


Not a bad set of frequencies really.

Will update original.

And the Behringer is a rather cool piece of kit.

95% of the control surface is midi mappable. It has two independent effects processors. But those two processors do ohhh so much more. I have it on good authority (you can believe me or not, i really don't care) that the same AD/DA converters used in the Pioneer were used for the Behringer as well. Optical faders and dials mean they respond the same way every-time, 10 times or 10 thousand.


It has an pretty adjustable dual-band compressor for the master output if you should so desire.

It has a third XLR mono "sub" out.

I can set the crossover frequency on the sub out from 20hz-200hz, I can set weather the sub out matches the output of the master, or I can give it up to 40db of cut in .5db increments.

I can Set the entire main out buss to full frequency, so that the crossover point is ignored to all outputs besides the "sub-out". Or I can set it to crossover, so that only "sub-out" receives the signal below my crossover point and the "full-range" outputs only put out signal above this crossover.

I can also assign a subsonic frequency filter to any of the four channels, from 20hz up to 200hz. This is, for instance, if you had low frequency rumble for a turntable, or if the sub bins in your system were not tuned for below 30hz, and below that things get really messed up, so you can cut that very accurately to get the response you need from the speakers if the rack doesn't have that ability, or you don't have access to it.


I am a budget mobile DJ, so these three features are a GOD SEND.

I already talked of the fully adjustable parametric EQ.

I honestly don't know how they packed ALL of these awesome features into a mixer at this price.

I have had it for 3 years, and I have a friend who lives with me that also DJ's, so we both use it, and take it to shows. Mainly because in the DnB underground around here I'm lucky to show up to a show with a 100% working DJ mixer, let alone something I would like to play on.

All I can say is that its way more of a beast than it should be for its price.

I spilled a whole glass of coke in the damn thing! I know how to open it up as I have before, so I CAREFULLY wiped EVERYTHING down with alcohol, and luckily it didn't get into any of the fader guides.


I have my gripes, like no fx send/return loop, i guess they figured their effects were enough ): . I notice a higher noise floor on the booth, record, and cue outputs than on the master out, witch is HIGHLY discreet. I really don't know why this is, probably a corner cut so save cost. I record my sets Externally back through the Audio 8 off the record out, and I have to boost my record out by 10db (also adjustable) to get Traktors recorder to be set a 0 and get perfect recording levels. As soon as I boost traktors record levels the introduced noise at no-volume is horrendous. I made a WHOLE bunch of recordings at various levels on my mixer and in traktor, and found that at signal silence, the inherent noise in the system was almost nonexistent with traktor flat, and my mixers record out boosted to proper recording levels in traktor.

Crossfader is fully serviceable and can be replaced with many different model of after market crossfaders, although I don't even use a crossfader, so mine is almost new, lol.

The headphone jack placement is kind meh too... but everything else gets me over that, heh.

And now this post turned into a huge gloat about my mixer ): bah.

[diezdiazgiant]

this has to be one of of the few interesting things ive read on this site in the last couple months.

[exokinetic]

this has to be one of of the few interesting things ive read on this site in the last couple months.

Thank you very much!

[djproben]

I have my gripes, like no fx send/return loop, i guess they figured their effects were enough ): . I notice a higher noise floor on the booth, record, and cue outputs than on the master out, witch is HIGHLY discreet. I really don't know why this is, probably a corner cut so save cost. I record my sets Externally back through the Audio 8 off the record out, and I have to boost my record out by 10db (also adjustable) to get Traktors recorder to be set a 0 and get perfect recording levels. As soon as I boost traktors record levels the introduced noise at no-volume is horrendous. I made a WHOLE bunch of recordings at various levels on my mixer and in traktor, and found that at signal silence, the inherent noise in the system was almost nonexistent with traktor flat, and my mixers record out boosted to proper recording levels in traktor.

Just to be clear, are you saying there is no workaround for recording sound quality, or that you found a workaround? I'm not sure I'm following this part.

And thanks for these posts - this information has been really informative. I've always wondered why my Rane TTM56 sounded so much better than my Audio 8 on its own with internal mixing; this really helps clarify it.

[exokinetic]

No I got the solution for the recording.


Traktors internal recorder has a gain adjuster in case the incoming signal isn't hitting peak.


Instead of adding gain at traktor, I have to add gain to the tape(record) out on the back of my mixer.

It has much less signal noise when the recording is silent (i.e. no music playing), nearly silent. To get that, I run my mixer in the center of its dynamic range, channel and master (basically both channel and master VU meters are hitting up to, but not above 0db)

And then I have to add 10db to my mixer record out to get traktors recording (witch comes off an extra input of my audio 8) at the right level.


Took a bit of experimentation, but I got it real nice now.