Gain/Upfader question.
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  1. #1
    Tech Guru PeteWoods's Avatar
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    Default Gain/Upfader question.

    I dont like using the crossfader to mix, for obvious reasons, and as a techno DJ my transitions are usually over a 2 or so minute period.

    I tried using the upfaders, but I dont like the lack of resistance to them, too easy to overshoot the mark, so I started to mix using the gain knobs on my external mixer, like i was taught to when i was taught to mix with CDJ's.

    The only problem being, the gain knobs on my mixer aren't to infinity, they only go to -24db(or something like that) so when i mix using them, there is still some sound coming from that channel.

    Would there be some modification i could do to make the pots go to -infinity, or to make the upfaders have more resistance, baring in mind this is a cheap as chips numark i got second hand off a mate?

  2. #2
    Tech Mentor Ryan Leo's Avatar
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    I too experience floppy faders on my denon X120,

    However,

    Better equipment, means better cross faders.

    The crossfaders on Pioneer equipment are very smooth and rigid. Also, I noticed at L&M the other day that the DNC2000, whatever its call, the denon 4 channel controller, has very nice faders. They made my jaw drop.

    Now I mix out with my faders you just gotta be careful.

    I think if you wanted you could start with the out going track with all the EQ down to like 7 oclock and slowly work up and that would pretty much emulate the upfader?

    Would Endless encoders have the most accuracy?
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  3. #3
    Banhammerized theory28's Avatar
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    im using a numark TC

    thumb on the side of the fader facing your body, use pointer finger with the tip centered on the slit above the fader as resistance

    thumb push up
    pointer push down


    note: not the very tip of your pointer, but so that the inside of the knuckle is pushing on the corner of the fader. same with the thumb
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  4. #4
    Retired DJTT Moderator DvlsAdvct's Avatar
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    You shouldn't ever mix on your gain knobs. At least, in my humble opinion, you shouldn't ever do that. If you want to mix with knobs then map your gain knobs to your volume for more resistance. And I'm not really sure what long transitions have to do with not wanting to use a crossfader. Hell, it's easier to do long transitions with a crossfader because, well, you only have to move the crossfader. AND you have more control over how much sound is coming out of the speakers with the volume AND crossfader combined.

    Gain and Volume are two completely different functions to audio. Gain changes the level of the track going INTO the mixer, whereas Volume changes the level of the track going OUT. You're much better off having a normalized level (all tracks peaking at 0db, or just below red) going INTO the mixer, and playing with the volume going out. That's how you have truly smooth transitions. Especially with no -infinity.
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  5. #5
    Tech Guru ponyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plw1993 View Post
    I dont like using the crossfader to mix, for obvious reasons, and as a techno DJ my transitions are usually over a 2 or so minute period.

    I tried using the upfaders, but I dont like the lack of resistance to them, too easy to overshoot the mark, so I started to mix using the gain knobs on my external mixer, like i was taught to when i was taught to mix with CDJ's.

    The only problem being, the gain knobs on my mixer aren't to infinity, they only go to -24db(or something like that) so when i mix using them, there is still some sound coming from that channel.

    Would there be some modification i could do to make the pots go to -infinity, or to make the upfaders have more resistance, baring in mind this is a cheap as chips numark i got second hand off a mate?
    NO, there isn't.

    Buy a better mixer.
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  6. #6
    Tech Guru ponyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct View Post
    You shouldn't ever mix on your gain knobs. At least, in my humble opinion, you shouldn't ever do that. If you want to mix with knobs then map your gain knobs to your volume for more resistance. And I'm not really sure what long transitions have to do with not wanting to use a crossfader. Hell, it's easier to do long transitions with a crossfader because, well, you only have to move the crossfader. AND you have more control over how much sound is coming out of the speakers with the volume AND crossfader combined.

    Gain and Volume are two completely different functions to audio. Gain changes the level of the track going INTO the mixer, whereas Volume changes the level of the track going OUT. You're much better off having a normalized level (all tracks peaking at 0db, or just below red) going INTO the mixer, and playing with the volume going out. That's how you have truly smooth transitions. Especially with no -infinity.
    This. Whoever taught you to use gains when you mixed on CDJs anyway? Weird, never heard of anyone doing that.
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  7. #7
    Tech Guru PeteWoods's Avatar
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    I was taught to mix with gain knobs on the DJM when i was being taught how to mix with CDJ's, when i first started DJing, and i kinda have a feel for using rotary knobs when i mix, but i can see that its probably a stupid idea, thanks theory for the tip, works much better

  8. #8
    DJTT Administrator del Ritmo padi_04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plw1993 View Post
    I was taught to mix with gain knobs on the DJM when i was being taught how to mix with CDJ's, when i first started DJing, and i kinda have a feel for using rotary knobs when i mix, but i can see that its probably a stupid idea, thanks theory for the tip, works much better
    You could always buy a rotary mixer.

  9. #9
    Tech Wizard
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    As per the above comments, but also: If you want to not overshoot on your upfaders, then adjust your gain so that the upfader at it's highest position is the loudest you want the track to be...

    [Cue flashback of using a PM80 5 nights a week]

  10. #10
    Retired DJTT Moderator DvlsAdvct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_G_ View Post
    As per the above comments, but also: If you want to not overshoot on your upfaders, then adjust your gain so that the upfader at it's highest position is the loudest you want the track to be...

    [Cue flashback of using a PM80 5 nights a week]
    This can be dangerous. In theory (and I know this doesn't always happen) if the Gain for two tracks is set so they are very close to the same levels coming in, the volume faders should be able to be set equally and they will put out the same levels. If you remove any chance of headroom (doing this will force you to push the Volume to the max, and then probably pump the master out as well) you are left only with the Gain to increase the level, and that can be VERY dangerous.

    I'd think it would be smarter to have the Gain set so when the Volume is at 7 it's as loud as you need, and then just in case you need that boost you'll still have space.
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