Traktor: OSX vs XP

[nem0nic]

Is That Why There Are Regular 'Security Updates' & SP3 Has Just Been Released??? LOL

No offense, but that's kind of a stupid remark (besides being unnecessarily capitalized). This recent post on Create Digital Music is a great example of what I'm talking about...

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/0...apple-laptops/

The same kinds of issues can be found with Vista SP1 (on top of the already sketchy file system issues Vista experiences that weren't addressed in SP1 and will be addressed in later fixes).

The point of my post is that XP is at the END of it's development. It's unlikely that there will be any more major changes. Both Leopard and Vista are still being actively developed. In the case of Vista, drivers are also still being refined. Also, many hardware manufacturers have yet to develop WaveRT drivers. While XP SP3 did launch with one audio impacting issue I know of (the RC HDA/UAA issue), this is (a) easily remedied with a patch from MS, and (b) not likely to impact XP DJs anyway because of the likelihood of using a device-specific ASIO driver.

I'm also speaking from my experience as a member of the Traktor beta testing team for the last 5 years. All other variables being equal, I would pick XP as the most stable platform for Traktor right now.

[Constant]

Stay with the PC, MAC's are really just hype and very expensive!

MAC's "seem" more reliable because end users often times keep all the junk off of their MAC not because they want to, but because of compatibility issues with software.

PC's are very reliable as well, but users always load them with garbage because they can. Almost 99% of computer crashes aren't actually coming from the Operating System, it is coming from downloading a horribly coded piece of software (bedroom programmers) and the software crashes the system. You don't see this much with MAC's because there are 99% less programs out there, when it comes down to it, people don't write programs for the MAC.

Both the MAC and PC are very strong operating systems, but if you are going to purchase either of them, don't load garbage software onto and you will be fine!

[midian]

^ ok ok.. Macs are most definitely not Hype. Have you ever really used one for an extended period of time? Mac fanboys are all people who used to use PC then got a Mac and wont go back.. I've heard of few people who go the other direction.

XP is reliable, and somewhat better for Traktor because (as previously stated) its at the end of its dev cycle. But in general OSX is a better built OS (If you try argue against that your somewhat tarded imo) once Leopard is more developed (6 months) it should be far superior to XP in most aspects.

XP is also more prone to spyware/malware/virus'/shitty programming then OSX, even with an anti-virus program installed - thus leading to cpu-lag / unreliability.

It also has a tendency to fuck itself over after a while of use, needing a reinstall, more so then OSX (this is just from my personal experience).

Mostly OSX just has lots of awesome features (and intergration of said features) that you could get on PC, but are not standard and generally are not as good / intergrated as well. This leads to a workflow that imo is more conducive to creativity and is (Faaaaaar) nicer to work on in general.

[Constant]

I am a Network Adminstrator with a degree in Network Engineering and multiple certifications with Microsoft and Cisco...I know a few things about computers in general.

There is a reason why professionals use Microsoft products.

I could talk circles around you and why the operating system is more stable and you wouldn't listen to me, FANBOY! Haha, I am just joking of course.

Back to the question at hand, and I can't help you there because I know absolutely nothing about DJ'ing and haven't benchmarked any of the software yet.

[nem0nic]

While I'm ALWAYS the one ready for a good Mac vs. PC debate, my recommendation of XP over OSX for Traktor has NOTHING to do with some kind of fanboy zealotry. It has to do with my knowledge of the respective operating systems and the bugs reported by the Traktor beta program.

XP is reliable, and somewhat better for Traktor because (as previously stated) its at the end of its dev cycle.

It's primarily because I see fewer bugs reported from testers using XP than OSX. This has been true even when XP was being more actively developed.

[midian]

My basis for stability is on my personal experience. I know lots of users of both OS and have owned both extensively. The number of times I have seen XP fuck out and need to be reinstalled is numerous. OSX no where near much (.. not that it hasn't happened).

That and my more limited knowledge of the basic architecture of both OS.
From what I know .dll files (the base of XP..) can be a real bitch can cause a lot of problems... and are vulnerable to attack ? Or has it been completely solved by .NET ? You probably know more on this. MacOS as far as I know got rid of most of its dependency problems when it shifted to OSX.

XP also has a tendency to be targeted more by spyware/virus' then OSX, for obvious reasons. And is less vulnerable due to base architecture.. 100% not sure on that part.

As for OSX servers and networking, I've experienced a lot of nightmares. XP i've generally had way less issues in that regard. The OSX network at work is quite solid, has its issues tho. My Uni OSX network on the other hand was in a permanently fucked stasis for 4 years.

[BentoSan]

PEBKAC is an acronym which stands for "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair"

[nem0nic]

From what I know .dll files (the base of XP..) can be a real bitch can cause a lot of problems... and are vulnerable to attack ? Or has it been completely solved by .NET ?

This statement makes no sense. It's probably a good idea NOT to try and talk technically about XP if you don't understand how it works. We all get it - you like OSX. But no one is attacking your operating system of choice. All other things equal, Traktor is more stable in XP than OSX. Going forward a year or so, it will probably remain that way. It's not an attack, it's an observation based on years of experience. Given Microsoft's unclear roadmap after 2009, it's anyone's guess as to what OS will be more Traktor friendly, or what OS developers will be actively supporting.

[midian]

I dont take it as an attack or anything, and its not driven from any form of elitism, In the end OSX/XP are just different and better/worse at different stuff. I mostly just want to expand my knowledge of this sort of stuff. Can you explain how it makes no sense. As in it doesn't in general or is not related to stated issue of system stability?

My current knowledge of the basic architecture (and security) stuff is somewhat archaic from around 2003 when I studied / dealt with this sort of stuff far more. I do remember having problems with missing .dll file errors causing issues etc especially if the system was under heavy use/modification (this probably due to shit programming of the applications used).. Also that windows has certain vulnerabilities, that .dll files can be added by non-admin user applications which can have an effect on the whole system, as the applications / user-data cant be kept separate (this being due to windows stems from a single-user system, DOS). OSX/Unix based systems, come being designed for multiuser environments, and don't allow this and keep a separation between aps and the os, but they changed that with Vista. Thats about all I remember from my CompSci learnings in this regard. I also remember Microsoft introduced the .NET framework to solve lots of such issues, but I dont do heaps of programming so I'm not 100% on that.

XP for sure is more stable with Traktor then OSX at this point, as I did previously state a while back.
Vista on the other hand is a complete Mear for any music stuff from my experience.

[nem0nic]

DLLs are simply shared libraries. All operating systems have them in some form. They're a way to "compartmentalize" code. They're not Windows specific.

Programmers used to like to overwrite a DLL to modify it or add to it for their apps. This is what caused the dependency problems most end users ran into. But this had everything to do with bad programming practices. If OSX had as many shitty developers as Windows, it would have been experienced there as well. This has been pretty widely discouraged, and better file protections have been put in place to address it as well. .NET uses assemblies to try and address issues with DLLs, but DLLs are still very commonly used.

Really, if you want to try and pick apart the problems with the Windows operating systems, the fact that they use DLLs is NOT a good platform to base your argument on. There are more valid arguments that can be made that are also Windows specific. That was my only point.