A Call to Arms

[advance]

Greetings!

I have been very interested in the possibility of switching from CDJ1000's to a VCI for about a year now. What has delayed me from doing so already is the fact that no one I know, or my local GuitarCenter (ugghhh) demos the VCI's- or any midi mixer for that matter.

I would like to know more about mixing with the VCI's in general. What really draws me to them is the ability to use a program such as Traktor Pro with some of my favorite plug ins I use when I produce in Logic, which to me takes mixing to a whole new level beyond using CDJ1000's.

I want to be free of being limited by the technology I currently use. I'm sick of having a panic attack after I finish a set flipping through my CD book like a madman making sure I collected all my CDs. I also like the VCI because it's compact and I don't have to worry about dummy records like you do with Serato. I don't even know if I really want to use Serato because I'm not a scratching DJ- I mix drum and bass.

Beyond what I have seen in youtube videos I really don't know what I'm getting myself into. I really wish I could demo one, but at this point I'm pretty much ready to take a leap of faith and buy a VCI because I really like the concept that much. That being said I'm curious what some of you who do use a midi controller to mix think. I'm happy that after almost after a year of random searching I came across this site from a youtube video...

1) What's the deal with the regular VCI 100, VCI 100MV, VCI 100SE, and the VCI 300. I see the VCI 300 is more, but is it worth the extra cash? I'd like something as responsive as a CDJ1000 in the mix with a solid build and not a "toy-like" feel. I'll spend the extra cash for quality without thinking twice.

2) Do you folks prefer Traktor Pro over the ITCH software? In my production work I rely heavily on NI plugs such as Kontakt 3 and Massive, so I trust the brand already. Again, I'm not a scratching DJ so Serato never really got me excited before.

3) Is the VCI the best midi controller out there, or should I look at some other manufacturers? Having been a DJ over 11 years now I always preferred Vestax mixers over Numarks because of quality for example, so does that same rule apply to midi mixers?

4) As far as presets for effects are concerned- is it easy to make and save your own? I see that this site has software you can download that has presets ready to go, which is cool, but I'd also like to create and save my own.

I'm sorry that my first post ever on this board is long and full of questions. It's a crappy way to say hello, but I'm desperate to know more. I really appreciate any insight any of you could provide. I've got the credit card in hand and I'm itching to spend some cash once I know a little more.

[BentoSan]

If you want to incorperate production techniques into your sets and still have good control the only solution is really Ableton - dj programs claiming to have VST capabilities lack severely in routing and midi functionality options so dont let that tempt you when reading dj product marketing material and it says you can use VST's. Having done production myself i found this to be a servere let down when checking out the different vst implementations different dj programs use.

Traktor doesnt support vst's, however it is quite possible to route the audio into a host which does - in this case Ableton.

Using this method is the best way to bring a fusion of advanced digital dj techniques and production techniques into a single set.

Another option is to run Torq dj software and use rewire to route your audio into Ableton, this is an easier method but then your not running NI Traktor - there are pros and cons to both methods.

The Itch software isnt just built for hip hop djs and is useful for any style music, you will find that there are more Traktor users in this forum and several users who have moved from Serato to Traktor Pro - personally i think that speaks for itself as to which program this community prefers.

Many users in this community use the VCI-100 and there is a very large userbase that will be able to help you out along the way.

Id say grab a VCI-100, it will be a great device for you to learn the ropes on, when something better comes out in the future you can allways change to that. Currently there isnt any highly ideal 2 deck mixer, the entire market is basicly trying to rip off the VCI-100 without making any real improvments to the interface. I think the guys making these devices need to get more in touch with their market :\ The only kind of deck interface that we have seen recently that shows any signs of independent thinking is probably the Stanton scs 3d aka DaScratch, but i wouldnt recommend that for the only thing people mix on - i see it more as a wonderfull accessory to other equipment like for instance a VCI-100.

The presets that you make in Traktor Pro at the moment are only for use in advanced move which means you cannot cant chain effecs together. This may be delt with in future revisions where users will hopefully be able to create their own presets for advanced mode - i cant say for sure though but DJTT certainly has a strong desire for this functionality.

Welcome to DJTT i hope this information helps

[advance]

Thanks for the reply! You have made some very interesting points here.

I guess I was hoping that Traktor would allow use of a plug in and be able to assign a filter for example in that plug in to a knob on a VCI. You're saying it does not do that? No dj software claiming VST support will let you do that? I have been avoiding Ableton because I would like to have platters on a hardware interface- the only hardware interfaces I've seen are just mixers.

That will be really cool if/when Traktor allows you to load a chain of plug ins on a single channel and be able to assign parameters to a midi controller!

I'm also concerned about the feel of the platters on the VCI. If you have used a Pioneer CDJ1000 before it has a pretty solid feel when you're cueing up for a mix. The platters on the VCI look thin and small so I worry about the feel. What's your thoughts? Are they solid? I was reading that the VCI 300 has sensitivity settings on the platters so they don't vibrate in a club. Anyone use their VCIs in a club?

Thanks again btw for the feedback. This is all very helpful!

[BentoSan]

I guess I was hoping that Traktor would allow use of a plug in and be able to assign a filter for example in that plug in to a knob on a VCI. You're saying it does not do that? No dj software claiming VST support will let you do that?

They will allow you to assign a knob to a frequency cuttoff point, but say for instance you want to increase the resonance from within a certain range as the filter cuttoff point moves(both assigned to the same knob) this isnt possible - the vst support in mixing programs is shady to say the least.
Torq for instance i beleive only lets you map one parameter from each vst at a time - Ableton is light years ahead in terms of how you can control and layer your VST's.

I'm also concerned about the feel of the platters on the VCI. If you have used a Pioneer CDJ1000 before it has a pretty solid feel when you're cueing up for a mix. The platters on the VCI look thin and small so I worry about the feel. What's your thoughts? Are they solid? I was reading that the VCI 300 has sensitivity settings on the platters so they don't vibrate in a club. Anyone use their VCIs in a club?

The vci-100 vibrating issues can be solved by using a flight case or putting the unit on something that doesnt vibrate, like a cement brick - the flight case is the most suitable solution though. We are also in the process of getting a firmware upgrade for the VCI-100 which will hopefully increase the resolution of the messages sent by the device which will make the jog wheels more accurate too.

Many users here jam out out at clubs, and its only when there are alot of subwoofers in a close proximity to the booth when the jogs have problems and a flight case is needed.

You could get the VCI-300 but then it doesnt have very much in the way of being able to map effects onto the unit anywhere without using eans "fader fx theory".

That will be really cool if/when Traktor allows you to load a chain of plug ins on a single channel and be able to assign parameters to a midi controller!

Traktor does allow you to do this, its just that you dont have full control over each individual effect - each effect reacts like a "smart knob" that cannot be edited.

You have 2 fx units each with 3 chained effects per unit.

These are built in effects though and not vsts plugins.

[advance]

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Can you link me to more about "The Fader FX Theory." Sounds interesting and I'd like to read more.

On guitarcenter.com they have a VCI 100MV. It looks the same as the VCI 100,but would you be able to still apply this filter theory to it?

[advance]

Taking a deeper look it says that the VCI 100MV is more only because of the software it comes with. I tried looking at their site for the software, but it's down.

I think I'll take your advice and get the VCI 100 to test out. Thank you so much again for your help! I'll do my homework on the fader fx theory.

If I end up liking the VCI 100 I'll post up a mix of some upfront dnb with some new tracks I'm working on in a podcast.

[BentoSan]

Heres the link to the fader fx theory blog post ean made - http://www.djtechtools.com/2008/12/15/fader-fx-theory/

[djxsquizet]

i feel you on having the 2 platters and tactile control, but you can get traktor and route it into ableton, so you have your 2 decks then you can use ableton for all your loops and sounds.