Ableton Controllers
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  1. #1
    Tech Guru Bassline Brine's Avatar
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    Default Ableton Controllers

    And I'll preface this with, yes I did cross-post this a couple of places. Trying to hear as much feedback as I can before I pull the trigger very soon.

    So, I've really caught new wind with Ableton after getting a laptop, and being able to jam out with a couple different friends whom have sound their own sound setups. (One uses SSL, and the other Traktor). Hooking into the mixer and bouncing back and forth a bit is so refreshing, and having Ableton as my only program, has somewhat forced me to learn it better, and now I'm loving it.

    I've gone back and forth about to buy equipment so many times, and then something comes up in the budget and it just kills me and I can't spend it on shit. Well, now I'm about to pull the trigger. I was (and am still interested in) getting CDJ's at some point in the future, but with Ableton I think I'd be able to integrate and supplement my friends mixing, and that alone is worth pursuing over my own traditional mixing ability. (I have concepts, but not time practicing to hone skills).

    That being said, I need to invest in a couple of things. This comes down to two parts really, Audio Interface and Controller(s).

    Audio Interface:

    Right now I have an Audio 2 DJ soundcard. It's nothing special, it is what it is. I don't particularly /need/ cueing from it with how I mix with Ableton, but it works. I've been thinking about getting a higher end audio interface however, and I was wondering what people think would be the best option.

    Right now I'm basically between the Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6, and the Apogee Duet 2 (which is slated to be out very soon). I realize that there is a bit difference in price, and so I'm really wondering... is the Apogee going to sound THAT much better? I know it looks a lot slicker, but it also requires a separate power supply, and I can see that being an issue at points.

    I can live with the Audio 2 for the time being as I really don't need inputs, I just need a solid output from my computer. If you think that's the best decision, I would appreciate that input as well.

    Basically, I need to know if I NEED to upgrade to a better soundcard considering I don't need any more inputs or outputs particularly. I can see how they could be useful in the future.

    Controllers:

    I'm really looking for a live performance setup here, not so much a production thing. Keyboards and drum pads... I've got that pretty much figured out where I need to be.

    But I'm tossed between two (kinda three) different setup ideas.

    I need something to launch clips, and I need something to act as a "mixer" persay so I can control the individual channels.

    My first thought here is to just pick up an APC 40. But then, there are no EQ's for each channel. Which, in a lot of cases, aren't fully needed if done correctly, but definitely add something.

    APC 40:


    So that's leading me to think about a VCM-600 and either the Novation Launchpad, or the Livid Block for controllers.

    Launchpad:


    Livid Block:


    VCM-600:



    I guess the setup that I think makes most sense at the moment is the Block and the VCM-600, but it's also the most expensive.

    Is the integration of the launchpad and APC 40 for clip launching that much better than having to setup the midi controls manually with something like the Livid Block? I'd rather it be basically plug and play with minor tweaking.

    Is the VCM-600 worth the money? I know I posted this in another thread, but haven't gotten much of a response. It looks like a solid mixer, and I could really see myself making use of it with another controller for launching clips. But at ~$899 it's pretty damned expensive for what it is (even if I used a coupon or discount).

    Also of note, I'm not a big fan of the Ohm 64's layout. I really like the controller, but... it wouldn't work for me. I've thought about it a LOT. And it's just not something I could see myself enjoying.

    Conclusion
    :

    I basically just want to know what you guys think of an ideal setup for launching clips, controlling effects, and controlling the mixing in Ableton might be. I know it's something that is uniquely personal with how you set things up yourself, but just wanted to hear a different version for myself.

    Do you think I'd be happy with just an APC 40? Would a Launchpad + VCM-600 put me in a better spot? Should I get the livid block or the launchpad?

    When I talk to my friends about this is all goes completely over their heads. Ableton is not a traditional setup, and mixing and matching equipment is an involved process that I don't want to regret later. Moving on from? That's fine. But I don't want to end up buying something that I don't care for.

    Thanks a ton for reading this wall of text. Anything added is helpful, really just trying to decide where to dump a lot of my hard earned cash.
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  2. #2

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    apc40+apc20 and put them together for an insane setup =p
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  3. #3
    Tech Guru Nesquigs's Avatar
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    the APC picks up the different banks and effects that you have on the tracks and can use the rotarys for that.

    thats how i have mine set up, soon as you click something else(eq, filter, ect) they change to control those things
    Quote Originally Posted by Xonetacular View Post
    Ya I've heard one song. It's called Skrillex.
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  4. #4
    Tech Guru Bassline Brine's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by djnesquigs View Post
    the APC picks up the different banks and effects that you have on the tracks and can use the rotarys for that.

    thats how i have mine set up, soon as you click something else(eq, filter, ect) they change to control those things
    So can you effectively EQ between two tracks using the knobs on the APC 40? That's what I'm having trouble getting my head around, and the main reason why I see the VCM-600 as a very viable (albeit more expensive) alternative.
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  5. #5
    Tech Guru Nesquigs's Avatar
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    yep, just set the tracks up with an eq 3 or 8 on the channel and youre good to go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xonetacular View Post
    Ya I've heard one song. It's called Skrillex.
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  6. #6
    Tech Guru deevey's Avatar
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    yep, just set the tracks up with an eq 3 or 8 on the channel and youre good to go.
    Unless you want to simultaneously control tracks EQ, which most DJ's would e.g. Drop the bass on one, pump the bass on another at the same time.

    Needing to select tracks if I have multiple channels with multiple FX is also pain in the ass.

    I use the top line of track control as gain/bass as I use these most frequently.. and Use the send A button select to use the knobs as top/mid to get around needing to select the channels.

    I think the APC is a fantastic controller for Ableton everything is where you would expect it to be, which is important .. and its very flexible.

    However would LOVE to get my hands on the Vestax if I had the money .. for DJ'ing IMHO its just better laid out & better built with everything where you would expect and require.
    Last edited by deevey; 05-28-2011 at 07:11 AM.

  7. #7
    Tech Guru TommyQuiet's Avatar
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    the vestax is now cheaper than the apc40

    vcm 600 is £299
    apc40 £350

    i have had the apc 40 loved used tom cosoms and will marsh's templates before making my own,now replaced the apc40 with an i pad2


    if your using custom scripts and stuff with the apc you can do so much more with it

  8. #8
    Tech Guru deevey's Avatar
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    if your using custom scripts and stuff with the apc you can do so much more with it
    Without a doubt ... but just there is no way around the layout of the physical control like the EQ's

    For Dj'ing i'd go with the Vestax ... guess it depends on your style but I could never vote for a virtual or layered layout over a physical one.

    Where are you seeing the Vestax for that cheap ? ... even amazon which normally has cheap prices is $899 average

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=vestax+ableton&x=0&y=0"]Amazon.com: vestax ableton[/ame]

  9. #9
    Tech Guru kooper1980's Avatar
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    I'd go apc and I separate controller with extra knobs. I used to use an apc and you can set the EQ3 up on each channel and control them simultaneously as with any mixer. The ring led's are great for letting you know where your EQ is at as well. To be fair I only had control set up for the lows and a filter but you can map anything you want to suit your workflow. If you feel you need more knobs then buy an additional controller but I found the apc to be sufficient on it's own.
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  10. #10
    Tech Guru deevey's Avatar
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    Or you could output each channel to the club mixer for EQ control if you have enough outs on your soundcard to save bringing extra gear.

    Bang for buck definetly APC40 (unless the £299 price on the Vestax is for real! - TommyQuiet where art thou!)

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