I just dont get it....?
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  1. #1
    Tech Wizard
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    Default I just dont get it....?

    First off - I will say that you guys have a great resource here! Seems like unbiased and good advice around! And I love it how there are people making improvements and mofdifying!

    Now to the rant (!)

    Computer DJing has beena round for some time now. Its pretty confirmed as the general trend forward. There are some great software packages out there - each with respective benefits depending on how you want to use them.

    So WHY ON EARTH IS THE DJ CONTROLLER MARKET SO POOR?!!

    I mean - this is surely not rocket science?

    Take my current needs:

    A large 'Xponent-like' controller that can control a 4 deck set-uo (Traktor) which has high quality build/comonents (not toy-like Xponent). With a generous collection of FX control and track selection control which can be user defined....

    As a 'high-quality' developer - why do Vestax ship all their units with puny 45mm tempo faders? Is there a resolution limitation with the pitch range via controller? Maybe Im the only one who like to beatmatch anymore? And why cant they just make an enlarged controller - perhaps with a laptop stand at the back...?
    And VCI400 - no pitch wheels!!!??? Does that mean people in Traktor dont beatmix?
    Numark also guilty of puny tempo faders and limited FX control - choosing to make baby toy like controllers?!

    This DJTechpro Hybrid again interesting - but chunky as hell! Difficult to move and looks a bit toy-like and limited...:

    http://www.djtechpro.com/product_det...286&sub_id=105





    I just dont get it. Surely there is a gap in the market....?

    One of the companies that seems respectable is EKs with their OTUS - but thats quite expensive - and tough to lug around. Scores highly with me although I think it might be style over function...plus I'd need 2 to kontrol 4 decks in Traktor ($$$phew!)

    I have been building over this last 2 year my dance music production studio - and taken a break from DJing. Ive ditched my 1200s and did a stint using Ableton to DJ out. However it became a bit dull - just stacking tracks - even if I was creative with them....I think I want to keep production and Mixing seperate.

    So Im looking back into this field and it seems so frustrating. In audio production in most production areas it seems you can find (even very specific) the right tool for you. However in the computer DJ controller area - Im pulling my hair out!

    Im seriously consideirng an Xponent - but felt like - what is the point in such redundancy in buying one - -then using it WITH Traktor and WITHOUT the soundcard and Torq I paid for....

    It all seems ridiculous....cant SOMEONE make a decent, large, user customiserble control...?

    Sorry for the rant. If Ive missed my dream solution out there please let me know!


  2. #2
    Tech Mentor alien2k's Avatar
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    I think that the most complicated design challenge for a cotroller is that everybody use it in a different way. For instance you want to control 4 decks, so the controller manufacturer assumes that no bit matching is involve because the software will do it, so they design an excellent controller for that purposes (VCM-400) but left out the wheels and nice big pitch faders. So now you canīt manually beatmatch. IT is a game of giving and taking.

    I think that a whole unit for everything (4 deck controll, multiple effects control, jogwheel, pitch faders etc...) is out of the scope for most of controllerīs manufaturer because they will end up with a product that is too big and expesive (ex: Xone 4d). On the other side you have the paradigm that laptop djing is good because you donīt need to carry 2 huge TTs and another huge crate of records. So now you will need to carry an enormous controller? It doesnīt make much sene, considering that dj booth at clubs are small....

    As you can see try to put yourself on the shoes of a controller designer, there are too many things to put on a scale before you can start designing anything. My prediction is this technology has not been long so much, so in a few more years there will be lots of contrllers, and you will be able to choose the one that is best for you. Also designers will manage to build smaller parts so they can fit more in a smaller cotroller. Today the best option is to buy a combination of controllers which will allow you to work with the software of your preference in the way you want.
    Last edited by alien2k; 02-12-2009 at 09:24 AM. Reason: typo

  3. #3
    Tech Wizard Nate1379's Avatar
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    I know some of Numark's current controlers look like childrens toys, but the new NS7 looks pretty amazing. Hopefully they didn't drop the ball on the quality side of things.
    DJ N8
    "Eat, drink and be merry. For tomorrow we die" -DMB

  4. #4
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    Its true Alien - size is an important issue. However I guess I wasnt clear in that I use 2 decks most of the time - but would like the ability to switch a 2 deck layout (such as VCI100/Xponent) to decks 3 and 4 with a switch. So there is not so much need for double-up...

    Really if they did a 'better Xponent' or a VCI400 with jog wheels (extending the unit depth a bit - not the end of the world) - and made gig bags for them - I would be loving it...I wonder maybe no-one esle is on the same page as me....?

    Nate-the N7 looks great - but not really portable - and not great for FX/House DJs. GREAT for Hip HOp...Overkill for House and electronica where you want FX and dont need such heavy scratch facilities...

  5. #5
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate1379 View Post
    I know some of Numark's current controlers look like childrens toys, but the new NS7 looks pretty amazing. Hopefully they didn't drop the ball on the quality side of things.
    The NS7 only has controls for 2 decks

    I think the Stanton SC system has a better layout personally - but its expensive

  6. #6
    Tech Mentor alien2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PIGLET View Post
    Its true Alien - size is an important issue. However I guess I wasnt clear in that I use 2 decks most of the time - but would like the ability to switch a 2 deck layout (such as VCI100/Xponent) to decks 3 and 4 with a switch. So there is not so much need for double-up...
    I use the vci-100 for controlling 4 decks, it works fine. But I would like a joystick as the one on the vcm-400 to change decks. Now I am lacking cotrollers for effects, on the vci I just controll the effects for 1 deck at a time. Now I am looking for a smaller unit which I can dedicate for effects. But not the ideal setup though. Mobility is a main issue for me.
    And yes a vestax bag for a vci would be awesome!

  7. #7
    Tech Wizard Nate1379's Avatar
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    Bummer about the NS7, although I should have remembered that it was specifically designed for the Serato Itch Software.... Duh

    No worry's, my VCI-100SE should be in any day now.
    DJ N8
    "Eat, drink and be merry. For tomorrow we die" -DMB

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by alien2k View Post
    I use the vci-100 for controlling 4 decks, it works fine. But I would like a joystick as the one on the vcm-400 to change decks. Now I am lacking cotrollers for effects, on the vci I just controll the effects for 1 deck at a time. Now I am looking for a smaller unit which I can dedicate for effects. But not the ideal setup though. Mobility is a main issue for me.
    And yes a vestax bag for a vci would be awesome!
    maybe look at the Novation Nocturn?

    Im considering one of those...

    THat plus a VCI100 would be pretty neat.

    Its only the tempo slider holding me back with the combination of VCI100 + Nocturn...it looks way too short and difficult for mixing...How do you find it?

    Also - is the MIDI resolution fine enough for accuracy with the jog wheels and tempo slider?

  9. #9
    Tech Mentor alien2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PIGLET View Post
    maybe look at the Novation Nocturn?

    Im considering one of those...

    THat plus a VCI100 would be pretty neat.

    Its only the tempo slider holding me back with the combination of VCI100 + Nocturn...it looks way too short and difficult for mixing...How do you find it?

    Also - is the MIDI resolution fine enough for accuracy with the jog wheels and tempo slider?

    Hmmm funny you sayed so. Actually there was a contest on this site and I won a nocturn, but unfortunately novation friends have not send it yet so I am waiting to see how the setup you described is going to work. I wanted to assing all the effects and maybe others to the nocturn.

    Also I forgot to mention that i mix externally, so I dont use the VCI for software mixing.

    Your conern about the tempo sliders is true. At first I thought they were useless, but with a little practice and gentle touchs I am now used to them. I practice manual beatmatch regularly and I usually end at +- 0.1 from the other song bpm using those sliders and Traktor 3. I also play with another friend and he uses TTs and I can beatmatch perfectly with the VCI, so I would say GO FOR IT!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BentoSan View Post
    The NS7 only has controls for 2 decks

    I think the Stanton SC system has a better layout personally - but its expensive
    ooh the SCS series looks interesting. I dunno something is not right about them tho. What I like about the NS7 is that it is in some way embracing the digital future - by making it smaller and adding other features and for that model working with the regarded 'scratch / Hip Hop application'. If I was still a scratch DJ I would go for the NS7...looks wicked for that...

    With this Standton SCS it looks like they are clinging onto the old turntable paradigm in a way that is bulky, tacky-looking and probably budget sounding - yet expensive as well. ....FWIW I think that 'Da Scratch' thing looks rubbish (although an interesting concept)...cant see many Turntablists using that!

    Why these manufacturers try to trick us be claiming 96Khz (or even 196!!) audio makes it a good interface I dont know. No-one plays back at that sample-rate on tracks that have been recorded and mixed down to 44.1. Anyone who knows, knows that it is the quality of D/A converters that is most important in these interfaces - not how high the sample rate goes....

    An Apogee Duet would likely Im sure sh*t on it if you only need stereo out...

    I dont want to sound like an arse - but coming from a production background - its depressing to see the marketing sh*te they try to pull on DJ consumers...

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