Im really unhappy with TP and a possible solution?
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  1. #1
    Tech Wizard
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    Default Im really unhappy with TP and a possible solution?

    hi folks,
    I have to get this off my chest.

    I have to say, I really don't like the development from TP. if you compare it with ableton for example it's just so professional and inconsistent.


    1.
    they change things from update to update which can completely destroy your workflow. they change or remove (like external eq....) instead off adding stuff.

    this is one small example:
    http://www.native-instruments.com/fo...ad.php?t=80585


    2.
    they also like to limit you. there is so much stuff possible with digital technology now they don't use.

    - the effect section is one example, only two racks is a joke. there is no reason for it, they could just copy/paste some code for more. just give the possibility for 4 or even more racks.

    - no vst support, this is the only thing which I can understand, because it's a potential risk for crashing - but even if I like the effects in TP - the effects are always the same (and all your stuff has the same sound signature) and some stuff is lacking. for example: a more advanced delay which can be driven into a feedback loop (aka self feedback). the feedback parameter is to small at the moment for this. sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad - therefore I need a choice I don't have at the moment.



    I don't think that NI will change that behaviour or development style, but I don't see an alternatives to TP. and there is a lot of stuff I absolutely love in it too. beatjumps and looping is just great.


    so what could be the solution?

    TP+ableton would be great, but it's not possible for me to get them synced really tight with midi clock: I also like to get visual feedback for EQ setting, volume and stuff from my screen. also not possible, because in ableton you can only see one channel at the same time. furthermore ableton and TP on one screen is a bit squeezed (for this task - as a dj mixer - ableton has not the best interface too).

    what about TP+reaktor?

    midi sync via midi clock is really tight(!) and with reaktor you could build your own small interface for 4 channels + FX, which can be displayed at with TP the same time. this very promising, but in the end I would prefere a "one" program solution. two programs at the same time are just more error prone and it's a bit clumsy with two separate windows.

    I also would like to use the EQs from TP, which I can't use this way (no EQ in external mode).


    so what's the conclusion.

    I play only electronic, from minimal to house to experimental ambient stuff (especially there I could need a lot of fx possibilities)

    - just use TP and push it to its limits? the most important thing is to create the right mood. so playing the right track at the right moment is the most important thing anyway.

    - make a fiddly combination with a lot of great possibilities (which can be the difference is some situations) from reaktor and TP and trying to get used its clumsy and potential error prone style of working?

    I don't know what to do.



    ... and the vinyl guys think that digital djing is easier
    Last edited by J.R.; 02-19-2009 at 02:13 PM.

  2. #2
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
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    Default

    You say that syncing with a midi clock to ableton doesnt work, but then you go on to say when talking about Reaktor that midi clock is really tight - i assure you, midi clock sucks, your better off manually syncing, it doesnt matter what program is syncing.

    The nature of midi is just not good enough to effectivly sync material and keep it synced over a long period of time - it gets even worse when you change the tempo !

    Try to rely on your monitor as little as possible for feedback - your gear should be giving you most of the feedback you need. That way you dont have to worry about not being able to see all the effects in all of abletons racks at the same time.

  3. #3
    Tech Mentor steveboyett's Avatar
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    For me the best solution to NI's arrogance, hubris, and head-in-the-sand insistence that their sky isn't falling is to stick with Traktor 2.5.3. It's stable as hell and the workflow is great. I know it inside-out. It does what I want it to. It has no fx beyond filters but I don't care. Literally the only thing I miss from Traktor 3x/TPro is having more than two decks. But as I said repeatedly on the NI boards before giving up (they sure seem to invest a lot of energy arguing for their limitations), 2 decks working > 4 decks crashed.

    So FWIW, my advice is to go forward into the past by getting hold of an old copy of Traktor, 2.5.3 or 2.6.2
    Steve Boyett
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  4. #4

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    I'm sticking with T3.3 until I'm convinced there is a better option.

    What I really wish is that ableton live would have a better track browser and the ability to see two tracks playing at the same time. If this happened I'd switch to Live immediately.

    I guess the Serato/Ableton thing might be cool but at the speed that Serato develops that could be a long time off..

    Oh yea also...I'm not really sure I want to warp 3k+ songs either

  5. #5
    Tech Wizard
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    Thanks for your answer, bentosan!

    Quote Originally Posted by BentoSan View Post
    You say that syncing with a midi clock to ableton doesnt work, but then you go on to say when talking about Reaktor that midi clock is really tight - i assure you, midi clock sucks, your better off manually syncing, it doesnt matter what program is syncing.
    I know what it sound like, but if I sync reaktor via midi clock I have almost no drift (only drift at the x : nnn.nx). In ableton the drift is way bigger, about 0.5-2 bpm (tried midi-loopback cable via my RME, virtual midi-cabel, midi-interfaces)

    The nature of midi is just not good enough to effectivly sync material and keep it synced over a long period of time - it gets even worse when you change the tempo !
    you're right, but it would only be for effects.

    Try to rely on your monitor as little as possible for feedback - your gear should be giving you most of the feedback you need. That way you dont have to worry about not being able to see all the effects in all of abletons racks at the same time.
    I would like to rely on controler feedback, but there are no controller for that out there (beside the lemur). the best solution so far is the BCR with led feedback, but I need more buttons and fader would be nice too. to stack multiple controllers isn't a good option too - I need a small setup, because in clubs/bars I like to play there isn't much space.

  6. #6
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    good reading. I agree with much of this.

    My understanding of TP is that is uses reaktor for the effects. Wish they would allow closer integration between the two products.
    maybe future releases...?

  7. #7
    Tech Guru Monika.mhz's Avatar
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    Bento hit the nail on the head. Midi sucks. heh. Honestly, your best bet would be to get 2 small LED displays showing 3 digit numbers with an infinite rotary pot below each one. sync each one to the master clock in each program and this way you can adjust BPM on the fly.

    Manual sync is going to be your best bet.
    Monika.mhz - I do things. Also stuff.
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  8. #8
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    i've been test driving traktorpro for a little over a month now.

    i totally agree with you about how it's silly that they changed the workflow so much, it doesn't make any sense to me to be honest. not only would it have been simpler to keep the workflow of traktor3, but they could've focused those energies in better ways rather than fixing what wasn't broke.

    There are some things I like about traktorpro, but for the time being I'm still using traktor 3.2

  9. #9
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    check out Adion's djdecks

  10. #10
    Mr. Golden EanGolden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveboyett View Post
    So FWIW, my advice is to go forward into the past by getting hold of an old copy of Traktor, 2.5.3 or 2.6.2
    for true stability- 2.5.3 was a great release! if you just need 2 decks and some great filters (most dj situations) then that is a great version.

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