Numbers for a bar guarantee

[DvlsAdvct]

Hey guys

So I've been shopping around for a venue for a new event I want to run, dedicated to darker dance music (DarkStep, Industrial, Noise, Hard Trance/Dance, PsyTrance, maybe even DnB and Dubstep).

I e-mailed around and one gave me an offer. WE keep the door, but we have a 5K bar guarantee. Now, I don't think I've ever worked an event that has made more than $2500, but to an extent, the only way to push something like this is to give it a shot, just a lot of money to lose.

I'm wondering how many people, in your experience, it would take to get to $5000. This could be a great opportunity, but it could also be a really terrible loss.

Let me know.
J

[Jack Bastard]

It's all dependent on what the venue is like really, if they have a large amount of passing trade (ie, people who will come whatever night it is) then it may not be too bad. Do you know the club in question?

(Assuming it's just another club I think it's bit of a rip off)

I have no idea how many people = $5000 of booze though. We recently got Johnny Fiasco over from the states to play here in Bristol, UK. Generally the club charges us 450 UKP for hire, but we got over 200 people in and they made so much on the bar that they waived the charge.

[DvlsAdvct]

Personally, I think it's a bit excessive also. It's in a nice area of New York City, though, and, well, it's not the most expensive bar guarantee I've heard. I need to see it, talk to the management and find out what the pass through numbers are, but I know this place pulls at least halfway decent. I need to go and be there for a few nights and see what the attendance is like.

[Chilly]

What do they have going on instead of your night?

[DvlsAdvct]

What do they have going on instead of your night?

Their March calendar

For March alone... they run some, what look like, bigger electronic music names (none that I know, but I have no conenction with this scene).

They also run DubWar, which is a whole night of dubstep that, from what I've been told, does rather well.

I need to talk to management and all, but it's just a scary venture

[Chilly]

Where I was going with this was if there's nothing going on, why are they making you give them a guarantee? You're bringing them business.

[DvlsAdvct]

Well, cause I don't think I'm the only person trying to find a gig. That's how it works in this city, though. The bar gets all the bar with a minimum guarantee, and we get the door, pending we make that guarantee.

I don't think we're going to be able to do it, just cause I don't think we'd be able to make that guarantee, and having a backup by charging more at the door in case the bar doesn't do well will end poorly too...

[Jack Bastard]

I just checked out their website, they've got some great nights there. I'd have loved to be there for James Curd/1200 Warriors/Ron Carroll.

Seems a bit big time for a night just starting up though. Is there nowhere smaller that you can build a following at?

[DvlsAdvct]

That's what we're probably going to have to do. I was shocked they even e-mailed me back. I think between the two DJs we have, if we can bring in a good trance DJ from the area, we'd be able to pull around 150 to 200 people if we really, really, really pushed it. I think the conversation I'm going to have to have is "We really want to run it there, but we need to build a steady flow of traffic first before we can guarantee that much money" kinda thing.

Smaller venues are hard to find around here because everyone wants a bar guarantee that no one in my music scene can really promise. But with the right foot work I do think it's possible.

[Whitey]

Here's how I see it D.A.

$5000 minmum bar take seems like a lot for your expected max of 200 people. That's $25/person - while some may spend more I think it's a high average.

You don't mention what your door price will be or advance ticket price. Have you an idea on this?

You maybe need to look at how much you would aim to pay the Djs + yourself and work on the 'sprat to catch a mackrel principle'.

I would suggest talking to the venue manager and suggest giving you a guarantee of 3 or 4 planned nights. Set your door price from the off and suggest to the venue manager that he/she can have a %age of the door (say 30 or 40%) for the 3 or 4 planned nights plus all of the bar take.

Looking at the nights they have planned in March the door and advance tickets prices vary imensely from 5$ to $25. If you are planning on pitching yourself in the middle at say $10 and $15 then 200 people will give you somewhere between $1200 and $1800 from which you will have to weigh out Djs and promote the event - Is that enough to start?

The idea is to build the night up and this idea works on 2 levels. Form your side of things the risk is less and you can have a chance of building up the business and for the venue owner he can have a slice of the door action to go with his bar take.

After the 3 or 4 planned nights I would pre-negotiate that you will then in future take all of the door money and the owner will then have some history to base his decision on whether you are going to increase his takings over the bar based on the history the 3 or 4 initial nights have given him.

I have found in dealing with business people that the 'sprat to catch a mackrel' idea doesn't work with some people as they are not willing to take a calculated gamble at all and they want it all ways, but it seems like a fair way to get a new night off the ground.

Alternatively look for a smaller venue to build the night and at a stage where you outgrow the small venue you can have some leverage with bigger venue owners having already got a captive and successful night with regular clientele.

There's my 2 penny's worth, but good luck