Traktor Pro 2 phase meter problems
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  1. #1
    Tech Mentor ToS's Avatar
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    Default Traktor Pro 2 phase meter problems

    This is first of the series of posts related to Traktor Pro 2 problems/inconsistencies and poor UX decisions.
    Note: all these are tested and found on windows OS and might be ok on Mac OS.

    Padding as dead spots

    Attachment 6718

    Phase meter dimensions are 238 x 19px.
    Interactive area is 238 x 9px, so it will interact with full width but with height significantly reduced. This means that there is 10px of height wasted/non-interactive for mouse click/drag. If we include the "mouse-move-in bug"* that area is diminished to tiny 7px of height.

    So, there it is, control represented with 19px of height, and you have to snipe the 7px stripe in the middle. I will not describe how this feels in the midst of the mix.

    * mouse-move-in bug

    When mouse enters the interactive area (from the outside) there is a 1px row that will not interact thus increasing the dead-padding to 12px (summed) and reducing the interactive area to 7px.

    Center marker thickness

    Attachment 6717

    Center marker is 3px wide and phase meter is hidden beneth it. This means that current solution is wasting precision in a way. It would be great to know that newly available ultra tight beatgridding is spot-on by checking if meter is only 1px wide or invisible under the thinner marker?
    Second, color contrast is lost with orange-white combo on such a small element so sometimes it is hard top notice the the phase meter "crawls" from under the marker.

    Center marker as dead spot

    Attachment 6716

    Center marker is also affected by "mouse-move-in bug"*. In this case, when moving the mouse from the center marker on to the orange phase meter bar. Not only that center marker should not affect the mouse interaction but this increases the dead area of marker from 3px to 5px sometimes leading to undesired effects.

    Mouse scroll and phase meter

    If you try to re-sync your track with mouse scrolling the phase meter, you might find that it is way to fine-grained.
    There should be a scroll resolution popup menu just like there is for any other linear control. If I remember correctly, on older Traktor versions this menu was accessible by right clicking nudge buttons near the phase meter.
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  2. #2
    RGAS Guru Xonetacular's Avatar
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    Might want to post this over in NI forums too, not sure I follow it exactly but I'll check it out later


  3. #3
    Tech Guru lethal_pizzle's Avatar
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    Looks like you're using an old version of Traktor there, with the old phase meter UI. As opposed to the new one.
    As for mouse/phase meter interactions - I don't use the mouse with the phase meter when mixing (and I don't know anyone that does) so I'll take your word for it.
    You should contact NI tech support with your bug.
    Last edited by lethal_pizzle; 11-27-2011 at 10:41 PM.
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  4. #4
    DJTT Moderator bloke Karlos Santos's Avatar
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    The nudge buttons are under the track info.
    Im not sure i follow any of this. I dont think the thickness of the centre position matters. The phase meter draw left and right of the centre position not underneath it.
    But i dont use the mouse to control Traktor.

  5. #5
    Tech Mentor ToS's Avatar
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    Thanks lethal_pizzle.

    I did not update to the 2.1.1 as there were some CPU spikes reported and that CUP button problem were a real turnoff. After checking the changelog I see that there was a line stating:
    Readibility of waveform display, phase meter and level meter improved
    I'll check that out and get back to you, they might have fixed the mouse interaction too.
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  6. #6
    Tech Mentor ToS's Avatar
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    Ok, I've checked the version 2.1.1 and, except for the graphical representaion, nothing is changed.

    Padding as dead spots: the usable area is still only 7px thick.
    Center marker thickness: still covers the meter and 3px wide
    Center marker as dead spot: still 5px non-clickable
    Mouse scroll and phase meter: I had no nudge buttons in the demo (?).

    So, nothing is changed.

    Let me answer to your answers now Karlos:
    The nudge buttons are under the track info.
    I did not ask where the nudge buttons are. I don't use those but instead either drag or scroll the phase meter (if you don't understand what this means, I can go into more details).

    Im not sure i follow any of this. I dont think the thickness of the centre position matters. The phase meter draw left and right of the centre position not underneath it.
    I tend to disagree on this one. Do a simple test: play two of your songs with phase set off by a few pixels. Then adjust the tempo difference so that phase meter would shift at roughly 1px per second. Watch closely as it gets close to the center marker and wait for it to emerge on the other side. Did it take 2secs or 4secs to show up?

    But i dont use the mouse to control Traktor.
    Neither do I, but my gear has failed me twice since the update to traktor pro and I was forced to use the mouse/keyboard interaction. That's when I've noticed how sloppy this was done. I hope that "who's using a mouse these days" is not the general view of things in NI, but I do understand that main focus was on S4 and turntable interaction.
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  7. #7
    Tech Guru 3heads's Avatar
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    What I don't understand: if your gear has failed you and you're forced to use mouse/keyboard - why screw around with the mouse in the phase meter instead of just using sync? The phase meter can only be accurate if your beatgrids are set correctly - and then you might as well sync it in that situation.
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  8. #8
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    @3heads: I mix drum and bass, some of the time without grids. Have you tried mixing d&b? You don't use phase sync with dnb, only tempo sync.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToS View Post
    Have you tried mixing d&b? You don't use phase sync with dnb, only tempo sync.
    I mix dnb pretty much exclusively, as with any genre, if you grid it right you CAN rely on tempo and phase matching. That little sync button has got me out of trouble a few times.

    I agree that these little bugs with traktor should be addressed, it should be a flawless piece of software, but we all know it isnt.

    I would rather they focus their efforts on some of the larger issues at hand though and properly testing their bloody code before releasing it to the masses!
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  10. #10
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    Agreed but this should not be overlooked (and yet they did in the 2.1.1 update).
    All buttons on the UI are clickable in full width and height, while you have to find those 7pixels to be able to move the phase meter.

    Simply put, as if you had a button that can be clicked only in the area covered by text label while the rest of the button is dead/non-responsive. I mean, that's just stupid UX. And to top it off, if you click the middle of the button, it also wouldn't react.

    Controls that are supposed to be realtime, used in a club, in the midst of the mix, with a touchpad are not supposed to be like this.
    Last edited by ToS; 12-01-2011 at 06:41 AM.
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