Allen + Heath DB4: Innofader Installation

[djproben]

First off, just to answer the relevant question about the innofader installation, you should be able to set the curve on the innofader to be as tight as you want for scratching. If you set it too far it will go completely to zero so there's no reason that you should have problems with fast crabs or flares. (From my own experience I have no problems with these on the DB4/innofader combo, but I am a mediocre scratcher at best, so you may be doing far more fancy fast flares than I am). Either way I don't think the DB4 curve itself matters one way or another since the curve is set by the innofader, but perhaps I'm missing something?

Re the DB4 vs the 92: First off, the 92 is a great mixer with extremely solid build quality, so I wouldn't diss it. But I do feel compelled to defend the DB4 against some of Darken's comments above. The first thing that is simply magical on the DB4 for me is the filter mixing. It's not for everyone, but I find it far more precise and subtle than regular or isolation EQ mixing on regular mixers. I've MIDI mapped other controllers to emulate this mode when I use other mixers because I like it so much. For me that alone is the best thing about the DB4.

I'm just not hearing the problems you're having with phono and line inputs. I don't use the line inputs often so that's probably my own ignorance, but 90% of my mixing is straight through the phono inputs and I'm not hearing any problems; certainly nothing that "sounds like garbage." Sure they are a little weaker than the line inputs but that's normal in my experience (is it different on the 92?), and thankfully you can use the gain knob to give them a little boost. It's not a deal breaker by any means -- they are plenty loud for clubs and certainly for my home studio. Googling isn't finding me any major discussions of such weaknesses, and my guess is if they did exist, we'd hear on the A+H feedback page which you called a "ghost town" - it's possibly that way because DB4 owners are too busy enjoying the music to post there Anyway it's possible that I'm just not noticing these problems but this is the first I've heard of them, and I've had this mixer a few years now.

As for the feel of the buttons, that's an individual preference - I've felt some that I like better for sure, but they hardly feel "cheap" to me. You have a legitimate gripe about the lack of send/return (and WTF were they thinking with the lack if inputs on the back of the mixer?), but effects are just effects - they're fun to play with but it's really a side show unless you're a very different kind of DJ than most. What I really like about the DB4 effects is the ability to be very subtle with them (as opposed to Pioneer for example, which are way too overbearing for me), but in the end I don't use them all that often anyway. They would be a lot more useful to me with the ability to save your settings to a button (say on the K2) so that you can easily go back to effects settings that you really liked, but what this model does instead is give you a very different approach to effects. You can play a loop and then play with effects for hours using very subtle changes to create your own tunes. That's a lot of fun, and probably sounds really good if you practice often just like that, but in the end I haven't found myself doing it all that much.

Like I said though the 92 is a great mixer and if you're happy with it, that's terrific. The sound quality difference to me is negligible (I'm actually fairly skeptical that ABX tests will measure any significant differences among the overwhelming majority of listeners), but if you hear differences that are meaningful to you then you should go with what you like best. To me the DB4 sounds great and its layout and filter capabilities make it a really enjoyable mixer to use.

[djproben]

What are you talking about, an analogue mixer and a digital mixer will always sound different.

Technically this is true since the analogue mixer will have a much higher noise floor, but in practice the difference is negligible since you're not likely to crank up the analogue mixer so loud that you hear the noise.

[Darken]

I'll make a response shortly, as well as providing links to the complaints which A&H still have not responded to. Thanks for your response djproben, I respect your response but I still disagree on just about all counts which I'll cover when I return. Cheers.

[SupaSandeep]

ohhhh sorry, ya I meant Orange County.... funny coincidence, I traded my Made in the UK rotary Xone 92, for his Made in UK Xone Db4. He also had an RME UCX & KP3.. what are the odds?!


I just saw your post about swapping the faceplate..... I got my Xone 92 graphite faceplate from Sweetwater. It is a little difficult & time consuming to do. Getting the part isn't really easy, and I had to get the crossfader plate later on as it wasn't available. Also, the knobs (even though they don't look like it) are different on the newer model. The older model is black with grey notches & the newer ones are black/white. That alone took about a year to get (even after talking with the Allen & Heath guys personally at NAMM, including Andy Rigby Jones), I'd say just get Chroma Caps as that'll save you a lot of hassle..... Installing the faceplate is a bit tricky too. it's not laid out like most mixers where the faceplate just sits on top of the component, on the Xone 92 the components are attatched to the mixer itself (part of why it feels so solid) so under each knob is a nut you have to take off. Each channel is a separate board so be careful with that as well.. good luck!

[SupaSandeep]

ohhhh sorry, ya I meant Orange County.... funny coincidence, I traded my Made in the UK rotary Xone 92, for his Made in UK Xone Db4. He also had an RME UCX & KP3.. what are the odds?!


I just saw your post about swapping the faceplate..... I got my Xone 92 graphite faceplate from Sweetwater. It is a little difficult & time consuming to do. Getting the part isn't really easy, and I had to get the crossfader plate later on as it wasn't available. Also, the knobs (even though they don't look like it) are different on the newer model. The older model is black with grey notches & the newer ones are black/white. That alone took about a year to get (even after talking with the Allen & Heath guys personally at NAMM, including Andy Rigby Jones), I'd say just get Chroma Caps as that'll save you a lot of hassle..... Installing the faceplate is a bit tricky too. it's not laid out like most mixers where the faceplate just sits on top of the component, on the Xone 92 the components are attatched to the mixer itself (part of why it feels so solid) so under each knob is a nut you have to take off. Each channel is a separate board so be careful with that as well.. good luck!

[SupaSandeep]

First off, just to answer the relevant question about the innofader installation, you should be able to set the curve on the innofader to be as tight as you want for scratching. If you set it too far it will go completely to zero so there's no reason that you should have problems with fast crabs or flares. (From my own experience I have no problems with these on the DB4/innofader combo, but I am a mediocre scratcher at best, so you may be doing far more fancy fast flares than I am). Either way I don't think the DB4 curve itself matters one way or another since the curve is set by the innofader, but perhaps I'm missing something?.

it SHOULD work fine, but it simply doesn't, I might be doing fancier flares, but when I had that exact Innofader installer on my Xone92, Xone 02 & even Behringer DDM4000 it was fine, I didn't adjust anything before installing on this DB4 but it reacts differently for sure.

[SupaSandeep]

back to the faceplate install... also need to make sure you disassemble the rotaries properly. I broke one in the midst of doing this & it took about 4 months to get a replacement. take off the top part of the rotary first (the "face", if you will...) once you take off the face there's a screw you loosen to get the rotary off. do NOT try pulling aggresively or forcing the knob with a wrench, that is how morons like me broke it

[teknik1200]

inofader went into my 3d without issue.

and yes, the db2 sounds just as good as the other xone mixers I've had installed in my house since 2001 or so and I only mix with vinyl. no clipping or any issues...


and gain is something you set with your ears, not a center indent..

[SupaSandeep]

Here's a video I made about what I was talking about earlier, the DB4 just doesn't cut as sharp, you can really hear it around the 1:00 mark (excuse my sloppy scratching, I was just trying to demo), both mixers have Innofader Pro's in them, I've tried swapping the 2 but same issue. Curve is def set to sharpest on the innofader itself & the DB4... That same innofader in the DB4 has work perfectly in a Xone 92, Xone 02, & even a Behringer DDM4000, it should work the same on this $3,000 mixer!