Traktor Pro Beatgrids v Ableton Warping..My beatgrids keep shifting!! need help..
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  1. #1
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    Default Traktor Pro Beatgrids v Ableton Warping..My beatgrids keep shifting!! need help..

    Hey folks,

    I've been using ableton for a couple years but have recently decided to explore Traktor Pro in parallel...all goin ok with the exploration except for some reason I cannot get my head around setting up and saving beatgrids properly! lack of info on NI site appalling i have to say also :-(...
    Anywiz, my problem is that although I'm fine with the beatgrid concept/theory/setting the first grid/setting correct/original bpm etc - for some reason most of my tracks seem to "drift" away from the grid mid way through the track (all techno tunes downloaded from Beatport btw - so shouldnt be any drift in the wavs/mp3s..)...when I go through the track like Ean shows in his tutorial and move the grids left or right to fix the "drift" all looks good on the screen but then I return to the beginning and then thats all wrong and the beatgrids have drifted !! Iaghhh its driving me nuts :-) in ableton once you drop the warpmarker everything "to the left" obviously stays locked behind it...can you do this in Traktor? i.e lock a beatgrid - then drop a second and lock that??? If not advice badly needed on how to tighten the grids....any help much appreciated...

    Cheers,

    ROC.

  2. #2
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    Well see, one of the major edges that Ableton has over Traktor is that in Traktor, one can usually only effectively beatgrid (the way you would in ableton) a track with a steady tempo. That means it is beating exactly on beat for the entire song.

    Usually that drift means that song is at an unsteady tempo. Either that or your first beatgrid marker isn't EXACTLY on beat and should be shifted a bit. If the song has a steady tempo and your first marker is right, there shouldn't be any drift.

    Now, there are a few ways to handle an unsteady tempo:
    -No beatgrid! I hate this option, but it does work in some situations. I like to have all my cues set up and my beatgrids perfect, but for some songs with defined beats this is possible. Without a beatgrid you can still set an effective loop to transition in and out with.

    -Warp in Ableton, export and use in Traktor. This is my favorite option. I like Traktor's UI much more than Ableton's and the program works better for me. Thus, I warp all my tracks that have unsteady tempos in Ableton and then export them so I can use them in Traktor. There's some complications here with losing quality on the file, however.

    -Set up multiple beatgrid markers. This isn't an entirely accurate way and you'll still have some drift, but if you get the BPM down to a pretty precise measure where there isn't MUCH drift, then if you put down several beatgrid markers (Traktor 3 allows up to 6, not sure about Pro) you can sync them at those points and it'll work. This works OK most of the time, but still can get a little off at the points where the grid is least accurate.


    Hope this helped!

  3. #3
    Retired DJTT Moderator DvlsAdvct's Avatar
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    Alright, there are, like 30 threads on this forum explaining what you're doing wrong.

    You're not supposed to move the grid, you're supposed to change the BPM. You're moving the entire grid, but it's the same size. Changing the BPM makes it smaller or bigger. So, for example, if Traktor reads the BPM as 140.300 when the bpm is actually 140, it's going to drift as it gets further into the track. If you just move the BPM so it lines up at the end it won't line up at the beginning.

    But the track needs to be filed at 140, so if you shrink the bpm the grid doesn't move, it shrinks, or grows, or whichever. So yeah, once again, quick fix by using the search.
    It's the FAQ. Read it.

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  4. #4
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    Hey folks,

    Really appreciate the help here - btw I did actually review the other posts on this topic (so not that lazy :-)) but none really explained this logically - for me anywiz....so appreciate you both taking the time to assist the "traktor newbie"...

    ..After digesting your wisdom, I'm thinking best thing to do is warp in ableton and detect bpm eg 130 or whatever...and then just check that is the bpm detected in traktor - if so - align first beatgrid and make sure it doesnt stray...I'm thinking it will stray though after some breakdowns so re one of your other points and dropping a 2nd Beatgrid/marker; do I just create a 2nd cue point , turn it to a Grid and thats it? i.e does it lock everything "to the left" like ableton does? If it does then super, but for some reason I thought you could only drop one Beatgrid and everything "to the right" was then at the mercy of that Beatgrid -d'ohh! :-)

    Interesting you can export a warped track from ableton to traktor also ..didnt realise that could be done..will dig around for info on that ...I'm sure another traktor newbie has asked that one also! any links you can provide much appreciated..also anythign on audio qaulity loss via this method would be appreciated as i amy not go there if so...

    Only a couple weeks into Traktor but still leaning towards ableton to be honest.....will take time I guess but ABleton jsut so much more powerful i'm thinking...with the Akai APC40 type controllers now its really opening it more up to interactive dj performance also.....one thing I've just found with traktor (to my dismay I have to say) - is that if you happen to sync 2 tracks in Traktor Scratch Pro and try to do a spinback of one tune as your coming out of a mix/blend - the BPM of the sync'ed track can go awol eg up to 240bpm!!! Or if you hit the stop button ala "Dave Clarke style"/and try to do drop beat mixing the bpm can go something crazily slow eg 67bpm!! I know people will say that syncing defeats the purpose of Scratch Pro but you get my point..if you are syncing so as you can mess with effects and want to emphasise a new direction in set via a spinback or prompt "stop and chop" you really cant do...coming from a Clarke/Mills type mixing background this has really disappointed me as I thought i'd be able to get best of both worlds with TR Scratch PRO i.e could sync 2 tracks/loops, mix in a 3rd, mess with effects and then do spinback to mix into a fourth...thoughts welcome if this is possible or am I correct in identifying limitation?? maybe the next release heh!!

    Cheers,

    ROC

  5. #5
    DJTT Moderator bloke Karlos Santos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roryoc View Post
    lack of info on NI site appalling
    Where ? What ? You have a manual and a fecking great tutorial on this forum made by the Golden Eagle Ean Golden .

    Where on the NI Site did you look , did you sign in and look in the Knowledge Base . There is a description on how to set beatgrids.


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    Last edited by Karlos Santos; 03-30-2009 at 09:24 PM.

  6. #6
    Retired DJTT Moderator DvlsAdvct's Avatar
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    If you warp a track at 130 BPM, as far as I know, it should only take one beatgrid, cause it's been warped to the same tempo.

    There's nothing that can be said about beatgrids that hasn't already been discussed to death, really. And there are a lot of resources about.
    It's the FAQ. Read it.

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  7. #7
    DJTT Moderator bloke Karlos Santos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DvlsAdvct View Post
    If you warp a track at 130 BPM, as far as I know, it should only take one beatgrid, cause it's been warped to the same tempo.

    There's nothing that can be said about beatgrids that hasn't already been discussed to death, really. And there are a lot of resources about.
    Amen to that brother.

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