DVS n00b, couple of questions I can't seem to find the answer to!

[rip_king]

Hey All,

Been DJ'ing digitally for a couple of years and decided to make the switch to DVS for a few reasons.

My setup is as follows:

- Denon DN-X1600 with Traktor timecode control
- Technics 1200 mk2
- NI Kontrol X1
- Butter rug slip mats
- Shure 44-7 cartridge and stylus

I purchased the turntable used from guitar center (believe it or not but there are some solid deals to be had on their technics). The table appears to be in pretty great condition, I ran it through a couple of the online guides I've seen to buying used Technics and everything seems to be in order, maybe a slight pitch calibration but even then I think it's ok. I've never really spent much time around a turntable, so I have some greenhorn questions

So here are my questions:

1) How much should the tonearm be moving when it's on the record? The butter rug slip mats I have don't lay on the platter perfectly straight, I ironed them on an ironing board but there are parts where the edges are ever so slightly wavy and it makes the record wobble very slightly. The tonearm is moving up and down on the record maybe a few millimeters at most. It's not affecting playback or control at all, I'm more curious if this is within the normal range of function. I was thinking of getting some felt mats to put on it instead to see if those help it. I've tried laying the record flat on the platter (no needle on it, and no slipmat) just to see if its the platter wobbling and i think it has more to do with the mats

2) Are those of you who are using DVS beatgridding your tracks in Traktor? What's a typical workflow for getting tracks ready to play in Traktor... I was hoping that by learning to beatmatch traditionally that I could do away with the preparation of having to grid. Granted I know I'll have tighter quantized loops and be able to use tempo synced effects, but I don't care about effects as much. Right now i've been messing around with importing tracks I haven't gridded yet and then just analyzing them for BPM and trying to beatmatch from there.

3) What should the scope look like in Traktor when the DVS is working properly? I press calibrate and it says "skipping" for a half second. Is something wrong with my setup or is the calibration just running through the motions. I don't hear any skipping and the control seems to be working very accurately.

4) How many of you use sync between decks? I'm learning to beatmatch manually of course, but just wondering if people actually use this with a DVS system. Would you then have to MIDI map a couple of faders to use for pitch?

5) How much should I expect to pay to get a tune up for the table?

Anyways, I might think of some more questions along the way but these were the main questions I had for now. Thanks to anyone who responds!

[bumtsch]

1)That's acceptable. You'll see the same thing with felt mats too, sometimes the records are slightly wobbly and usually that doesn't affect playback. You may have to be a little more careful when cueing.

2)Beatgridding since before I used DVS. I just keep doing it for the reasons you mentioned :
*optimal fx and hotcue quantization
*perfect loops
*fallback to sync if DVS fails
I don't display the bpm on the decks (only in my track browser) and usually the phase meter is hidden as well.
Workflow is as follows :
*tag tracks properly w/art and key (I key them by hand, others like to use Mixed In Key or whatever)
*import in traktor
*analyze
*manually drop the beatgrid and set that as a hotcue, usually at a place where the track really kicks off
*drop a couple quantized hotcues at noteworthy events. cue1 is usually my load marker.
Frankly, the more I perform this routine (and the more I buy actual vinyl), the more it pisses me off and I just want to import/analyze/play without caring for grid/hotcues. I still do it for reference in mix timing/programming, not so much for the slaved deck C/D loops (see answer to 4) which I never get to use at actual gigs.

3)depends whether you're using the new mk2 records or not. If you're on the original media then this link still mostly applies.
The scope is different with mk2 records (two cyan circles and a yellow diagonal line). The more weight, the more out of shape the circles. Dust buildup and partly faulty interconnects somewhere in the signal path (from tonearm contacts to RCAs) will give obviously bad scopes (an awkward rca gave me a crushed-8 shaped circle once after a perfect initial setup, I shit you not. of course, it wouldn't play. Had to twist and bend to get it to work)
As for the "skipping..." when calibrating, I see this every time with mk1/mk2 vinyl - just for a second. And also after calibrating, if I drop the needle into a new position onto the playing record -then it says "skipping" for a second but playback isn't affected. I wouldn't worry too much about that.

4)I don't use sync on the timecode decks. However I like to duplicate short loops from A to C/B to D with a few shift buttons on my X1, and this triggers SYNC on the slave decks (need to set a master deck first of course). I use this a bit like an ultra precise send/return loop machine.
If you've set the grids properly, you shouldn't be needing to map any pitch controls...

5)I'm sure others will chime in and say you can spare some cash by tuning it up yourself, there's a wealth of tutorials out there depending on what's needed. You've probably read a few already. Curious about the prices too.

[rip_king]

thanks for the response! Glad to hear the tonearm movement is relatively normal.

I've gotten used to using hotcues for timing/programming as you had mentioned so I will probably still grid the tracks I plan to use in a live setting or anything other than just a 'leisure' mix.

Thanks for a run down of your workflow as well, sounds like I do things pretty similarly.

It is nice to finally have a way to beatmatch manually and play with tunes I haven't spent time properly gridding. My previous setup consisted of the same denon mixer and just the X1 (which is actually a pretty fantastic setup if you grid all your tracks).

[rip_king]

Do your cartridges/stylus matter for DVS control?

[bumtsch]

Not that much. You mainly want cartridges that are loud enough so you don't have low signal related issues. I don't know if there's any gain you can apply from within your X1600, but on lower-end ortofon concorde pro/pro S, bumping the gain in phono mode helps with my audio8.
As for the styli, you don't need the highest quality elliptical/semi-elliptical - they do provide a more accurate audio representation, but at the cost of extra wear on your records. Since you're always spinning the same two records in DVS (and sometimes always the same side !), that can tally up faster. And that extra accuracy is pretty much useless in DVS.

I see you have M44s, you can't go wrong with that. They're plenty loud enough, good skip resistance, good sound, not too harsh on your vinyl - a total workhorse for both traditional and dvs control. In fact Serato recommended these before they got Ortofon to produce the S120. This still carries over regardless of your dvs tool of choice

[rip_king]

thanks for the response! I kind of figured it didn't matter, I suppose I can always have a better cartridge handy for pleasure listening.

The Shure M44s are pretty nice, I haven't had a skip yet.