Why You Won't See Traktor on Linux - Page 2
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 45
  1. #11
    Tech Guru
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,464

    Default

    Daily issues? Please clarify.
    The KIND of issues you deal with daily. File management, installation and uninstallation of software, tweaking systems for better performance, etc. In Windows and OSX, solutions to problems are usually pretty easy to find and implement. In linux, many times that process turns into something like...
    I wanna use my dual monitors in Ubuntu! No problem, Johnny... after spending an hour looking for the settings in Ubuntu itself, just go to https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206...x86.x86_64.run and install that driver. Then run terminal and type # aticonfig –dtop=horizontal –overlay-on=1. Oh yeah, and did you remember to get your native screen resolution? Because now you need to type # aticonfig –resolution=0,x1y1,x2y2 where x1 and y1 is the resolution of monitor 1 and x2 and y2 is the resolution of monitor 2.
    Oh yeah, they're gonna get that. Nooo problem.

    You mean like they do with the Windows platform? What is the difference? FWIW, there are numerous Linux forums where answers are received in quick fashion. This is one of the strengths of the platform - community. See: Planet CCRMA and the Linux Audio Users group.
    Right. Show me the forums where users can get answers to questions about audio production and DJing WITHOUT getting bogged down in stuff like how to manually configure asoundconf using a command line. Because that is NOT accessible to the average user.

    Been to the NI forum lately? Infernos on a daily basis - Get Some!
    Yes, I have. And ALL of those people are all having problems with an OS that is easy to handle through the GUI. And where guides exist to suit THEIR SPECIFIC SITUATION in multiple places. That issue would be an order of magnitude worse in Linux.

    Or they could draw on community support. They also could lend support to having their applications run under the WINE emulation layer similar to the way that they offer support for ALSA hardware drivers.
    "Community" support for a paid program is bullshit. So a user is going to pay $200 for a piece of software, and when they have a problem you think it's acceptable for NI to say "sorry, we don't support that directly - please visit the user forum". No sir.

    Why?
    Because I've been through it all before and know what I'm talking about.

    Linux native DJ software needs to come from the Linux community. It needs to be free and open. Once you monetize it, there are expectations that need to be met. And Linux has no way of meeting them in any kind of realistic way. To that end, Stanton is working directly with developers (like Mixxx) and helping them in any way we can (the new MIDI scripting engine is a direct result of that work). We're also opening up our HSS1394 library so the SCS1 products can be developed towards. But it doesn't COST our company anything to support open source, so it's easy to make the decision to support it. If it DID cost us money (as it would with NI), then we would be more hesitant.
    Last edited by nem0nic; 04-27-2009 at 08:21 PM.

  2. #12
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2

    Default

    I use and work with Linux at work and home. We employ linux on backend servers and front end clients. It is by far the most stable operating system out there. I own Macs and Pc's also.. Linux runs wonderful on both machines. Crashes are rare .. it would be great to use linux live at a show ... definitely for peace of mind. Its just as reliable if not more reliable than osx and windows.

    Here is a great link for free audio/dj software - www.linux-sound.org
    Some of the software can run on win or osx or both.
    I use Hydrogen for a lot of drum loops/samples - love the program .. just got the newest april release.

    As far as tracktor creating an app for linux .... don't think it will happen anytime soon

  3. #13
    Tech Mentor
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bay Area, CA.
    Posts
    179

    Default

    The KIND of issues you deal with daily. File management, installation and uninstallation of software, tweaking systems for better performance, etc. In Windows and OSX, solutions to problems are usually pretty easy to find and implement. In linux, many times that process turns into something like...

    Oh yeah, they're gonna get that. Nooo problem.
    You're nitpicking and would be fooling yourself if you think that anyone in here can't find as many counter-examples of needed hacks on the Windows platform. It is also common knowledge that there are far more Windows users than Linux users and thus relatively far more problems. Keep it relative - thanks.

    Right. Show me the forums where users can get answers to questions about audio production and DJing WITHOUT getting bogged down in stuff like how to manually configure asoundconf using a command line. Because that is NOT accessible to the average user.
    Ok.

    Try this one --> Linux Audio Users Mailing List

    Notice near the top of the page where is says:

    "The LAU list is intended for people focusing on using rather than hacking audio and MIDI applications. It's a place for all things audio, but they should be viewed from a user's perspective. If it's getting overly technical, take it as a sign to move it over to the LAD list."

    There is also http://linuxmusicians.com/

    Yes, I have. And ALL of those people are all having problems with an OS that is easy to handle through the GUI. And where guides exist to suit THEIR SPECIFIC SITUATION in multiple places. That issue would be an order of magnitude worse in Linux.
    Not only are there GUI-based tools available for configuring every aspect of your Linux system, there are even free tools for creating your own GUI prompts.

    Zenity --> http://freshmeat.net/projects/zenity


    "Community" support for a paid program is bullshit. So a user is going to pay $200 for a piece of software, and when they have a problem you think it's acceptable for NI to say "sorry, we don't support that directly - please visit the user forum". No sir.
    Erm, supplement not replace - c'mon. A subscription-style support system is also an option - ask Red Hat.

    Because I've been through it all before and know what I'm talking about.
    If you say so but then you should know better than to marginalize Linux as only being useful with the command line like you did above.

    Linux native DJ software needs to come from the Linux community. It needs to be free and open. Once you monetize it, there are expectations that need to be met. And Linux has no way of meeting them in any kind of realistic way. To that end, Stanton is working directly with developers (like Mixxx) and helping them in any way we can (the new MIDI scripting engine is a direct result of that work). We're also opening up our HSS1394 library so the SCS1 products can be developed towards. But it doesn't COST our company anything to support open source, so it's easy to make the decision to support it. If it DID cost us money (as it would with NI), then we would be more hesitant.
    Glad to hear - looking forward to it. I'll be grabbing the latest beta this week - want to check out the MIDI learn and scripting features. By the way, I installed the latest version via PackageKit. You know - PackageKit - the "system designed to make installing and updating software on your computer easier"?

  4. #14
    Tech Mentor
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bay Area, CA.
    Posts
    179

    Default

    "Community" support for a paid program is bullshit. So a user is going to pay $200 for a piece of software, and when they have a problem you think it's acceptable for NI to say "sorry, we don't support that directly - please visit the user forum". No sir.
    Here is a loose example of how this could work-->
    http://ardour.org/support

    Ardour is the preeminent open-source DAW that is right up there with Pro Tools. Ardour was being sponsored monetarily by the SAE Institute until February. The lead developer now depends on subscriptions and donations to keep full-time development going. The monthly donation goal is $4500 - it has been reached each time.

    Here's the rub - Ardour's documentation is incomplete and has been for some time. Still, because it works so well, people are willing to pay to keep the project alive even though there is no direct support. There is a community of users who are more than happy to help shore up the back-end.

  5. #15
    Tech Guru
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,464

    Default

    You're nitpicking and would be fooling yourself if you think that anyone in here can't find as many counter-examples of needed hacks on the Windows platform. It is also common knowledge that there are far more Windows users than Linux users and thus relatively far more problems. Keep it relative - thanks.
    But you've made your point for me. You're right, you CAN find guides to optimize Windows for better audio performance. They're EVERYWHERE, and they can almost always be done without any kind of arcane knowledge, command line interaction, or indeed computer knowledge more advanced than my father.

    Try this one --> Linux Audio Users Mailing List
    Really? A MAILING LIST? Gotcha!

    LOL! Oh yeah. With gems like these...
    http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1008 This is totally accessible.
    http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=959 Firewire Solo driver install
    http://linuxmusicians.com/search.php...keywords=djing This is a search for "DJing" on that forum.

    Not only are there GUI-based tools available for configuring every aspect of your Linux system, there are even free tools for creating your own GUI prompts.
    You need to add the words "IF IT'S SUPPORTED" to your sentence. If not (and A LOT isn't) then you're in la la land. I'll be bothering with creating my own GUI prompts right after I figure out how to get my audio interface up and running properly (that is if I don't give up first and go back to Windows or OSX).

    Erm, supplement not replace - c'mon. A subscription-style support system is also an option - ask Red Hat.
    So instead, they're going to charge more for continuing support? Because they WILL have to charge for it (eitehr that, or make the Linux version more expensive than it's counterparts).

    If you say so but then you should know better than to marginalize Linux as only being useful with the command line like you did above.
    I didn't say anything of the sort. What I said (and the greater point I'm making) is that most users taking their existing hardware and making a switch to Linux will be FORCED to the command line at some point to try and configure their hardware. They'll be forced to search endlessly through forums hoping to find the answer to a problem they don't even know how to properly describe.

    By the way, I installed the latest version via PackageKit. You know - PackageKit - the "system designed to make installing and updating software on your computer easier"?
    That's great. While you were doing that, I was most likely playing with Traktor. I don't need anything to make installing software easier. I just double click it and go.

  6. #16
    Tech Guru
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,464

    Default

    There is a community of users who are more than happy to help shore up the back-end.
    And those are users that didn't pay for either the operating system they're using or the DAW. So kicking in to help with development is great. But this isn't how you treat people who paid for the OS and the software.

  7. #17
    Tech Guru lethal_pizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Maida Vegas, London
    Posts
    2,816

    Default

    Wow, there is a lot of energy being expended here on something that is never gonna happen.

    If it was financially viable, NI would do it. They won't.
    DJTT Nu Disco Mix Train Vol 1
    beats and balearic bobs in north-west london
    iTunes podcast
    soundcloud

  8. #18
    Dr. Bento BentoSan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    6,383

    Default

    Well there are certainly some advantages of running linux over mac and windows (you can do some pretty intense audio processing at a realy low latency) - but i can definantly see from NI's perspective why they wouldnt want to go into that territory. The market isnt very big either and they definantly wouldnt get their return back on it.

    Its not to say that linux isnt a good solution for some users, its just not a good solution for most users.

  9. #19
    Tech Mentor
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bay Area, CA.
    Posts
    179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nem0nic View Post
    But you've made your point for me. You're right, you CAN find guides to optimize Windows for better audio performance. They're EVERYWHERE, and they can almost always be done without any kind of arcane knowledge, command line interaction, or indeed computer knowledge more advanced than my father.
    This isn't your father's OS. Plus, I made MY point which was a response to your nitpicking attempt to claim that troubleshooting in Linux is complex and difficult. I merely pointed out that the same could be said for any OS and especially Windows on a much wider scale. Now you want to point to the fact that there is a significant amount of Windows How-To Guides out there in order to validate your point? Ok, I get it - you're a point-n-click person. Noted.

    Quote Originally Posted by nem0nic View Post
    Really? A MAILING LIST? Gotcha!
    Again, just one example. You again choose to nitpick. And yes, a mailing list.

    Linux was started with a Usenet group posting -->
    http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~awb/linux.history.html


    Quote Originally Posted by nem0nic View Post
    LOL! Oh yeah. With gems like these...
    http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1008 This is totally accessible.
    http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=959 Firewire Solo driver install
    http://linuxmusicians.com/search.php...keywords=djing This is a search for "DJing" on that forum.
    Not sure why you're LOL'ing (you must find discussions on how to expand a market (pointless or not) funny - that's OK). And you're still nitpicking - there are obviously many other resources.


    Quote Originally Posted by nem0nic View Post
    You need to add the words "IF IT'S SUPPORTED" to your sentence. If not (and A LOT isn't) then you're in la la land. I'll be bothering with creating my own GUI prompts right after I figure out how to get my audio interface up and running properly (that is if I don't give up first and go back to Windows or OSX).
    I don't need to add anything. SuSE, Red Hat, Oracle Unbreakable (Red Hat) all have supported GUI tools for system configuration. The free variants like Fedora have the same tools upstream and a community of users to help report problems and find solutions.

    Quote Originally Posted by nem0nic View Post
    So instead, they're going to charge more for continuing support? Because they WILL have to charge for it (eitehr that, or make the Linux version more expensive than it's counterparts).
    Or perhaps offer a tiered pricing structure. Dunno - marketing people are better at this type of thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by nem0nic View Post
    I didn't say anything of the sort. What I said (and the greater point I'm making) is that most users taking their existing hardware and making a switch to Linux will be FORCED to the command line at some point to try and configure their hardware. They'll be forced to search endlessly through forums hoping to find the answer to a problem they don't even know how to properly describe.
    You sound like you're channeling your personal experiences. I understand that you're all for dumbing things down but honestly I prefer to give my digital brothers and sisters more credit. I can go to front page of this web site and learn how to solder, flash a VCI-100, turn a Wii guitar into a Traktor controller and more. Surely I and others who are stepping into or have already dove into the digital realm can open a terminal window. Big deal - sometimes I need to edit my Windows registry too.


    Quote Originally Posted by nem0nic View Post
    That's great. While you were doing that, I was most likely playing with Traktor. I don't need anything to make installing software easier. I just double click it and go.
    Again so what? I have Glovepie open on my Vista workstation to create binds for my Wiimote so that I can set my beatgrids with it while reading over the Mixxx site on my laptop. Opened everything on both machines with my mouse and a few clicks. Hmm, maybe I'll grid a couple of tracks while my compiler builds the Mixxx beta.

  10. #20
    Tech Mentor
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bay Area, CA.
    Posts
    179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lethal_pizzle View Post
    Wow, there is a lot of energy being expended here on something that is never gonna happen.

    If it was financially viable, NI would do it. They won't.
    The purpose is not to lobby NI with a single thread (hell, they've been lobbied for a couple of years now) but to figure out *why* the market is so anemic for this platform given its strengths. Admittedly, I did use NI as the main example but they certainly are not the only DJ software company that doesn't see a market.

    You see there's always hope. There may be a catalyst somewhere that opens the door, someday. If there is, it will definitely start with the community - not by a product manager who isn't willing to take a bet.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •