1210 M5G pitch resolution - Page 2
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  1. #11
    Tech Guru Patch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaek
    I am using DVS.
    There's your issue - it's not the hardware that has low resolution, it's the software.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patch View Post
    There's your issue - it's not the hardware that has low resolution, it's the software.
    haha, that's a myth.

    playback speed variations of vinyl are hundreds of times bigger than those of digital. this is not just due to imperfections of the turntable's motor but also due to the imperfections of the vinyl itself. e.g., a center hole that is one-fifth of a mm off center (which is considered to be within the production tolerance) will lead to a very large wow at inner grooves.

  3. #13
    Tech Guru Patch's Avatar
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    Don't know if I buy that. I'll til' Mostapha chimes in to make up my mind...
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  4. #14
    Tech Guru mostapha's Avatar
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    rgtb is right.

    As a side note:

    There is literally nothing I can find that's actually better about analog audio than its digital equivalent except for tube guitar amps (though not solid state amps…digital modeling is better than analog solid state), tape saturation, and some level meters. With everything else, the more I read and hear, the more I'm convinced that digital is just plain better and that all of the analog wankers are just holding everyone back because they don't understand how to translate basically the same practices from the analog realm into the digital one. I'll give the analog wankers that a real SSL 4000G+ probably does sound better than any of the emulations (I've heard/used one…didn't have a chance to AB it with any of the clones). But at any rate, it's not $800,000 better.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by synthet1c View Post
    honestly I use the questionable turntables HDT 4.5 with the the most questionable software vdj with absoutely no problems beatmatching, The only other suggestion is set up your timecode config perfectly... there will be how to's all over the internet. If that doesn't work check all the grounds (especially the cartridge), if it still doesn't work swap the headshells around to rule out a problem with the carts... if that still doesn't work replace your vinyl... If all that is ruled out then you have a problem..
    I use the pitch fader completely to make all changes. Riding the pitch so to speak.

    Why did I learn to do it this way? Due to another problem I find with TSP combined with M5G's.

    When you touch the platter to slow down or push the record to make it faster, TSP appears to be extremely sensitive to this and makes a huge pitch bend effect on the sound. One of my friends who still spins real vinyl and doesn't use DVS, I introduced him to TSP and he had a really hard time with this effect.

    The M5G's have this torque compensation effect where if you touch the platter, twist the knob or push the label it will momentarily reverse what you did and speed up or slow down the platter in reponse to your actions. With real vinyl this isn't bad but with the control vinyl and traktor I find that this makes it impossible to do very small pitch bends. Traktor detects your initial change to the platter (causing the aforementioned pitch bend audio sound) and then when the M5G does its compensation traktor will then overcompensate, leaving you with the track still drifting like it was before in the same phase.

    Combined these two effects meant that I kept trying to make very small changes and if I was in the mix it would cause horrible pitch bending of the sound of the incoming track. Very unacceptable.

    So it forced me to learn how to pitch ride. Riding the pitch was the only way I found to make very small changes to the platter and also not have the crazy pitch bend audio. Note that I don't seem to face these issues when I am using real vinyl. It only seems to do this with control vinyl.


    I blurted out this example because you seem to be thinking that the problem lies with my skill in beatmatching vinyl. That somehow that there can't be anything wrong with the tools. This example is how I found a problem with traktor and then found my own workaround for the issue.

    I no longer believe that traktor scratch pro emulates real vinyl perfectly. The pitch bend issue was the first thing to point me to that. Telling me that there is a 2khz control signal doesn't tell me anything really because neither you or I understand what the software is doing with that 2khz control signal.

    I am having a hard time finding a solution to the pitch resolution issue, the most information I have found about this issue is an old thread on serato forums. I can accept that this maybe a problem with my skill, however I would like to hear of other people's real experiences with this turntable + tsp, rather than someone telling me to go home.

  6. #16
    Tech Guru Patch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mostapha
    Quote Originally Posted by RGBT
    Quote Originally Posted by Patch
    There's your issue - it's not the hardware that has low resolution, it's the software.
    haha, that's a myth.
    rgtb is right.
    Well I'll be goddamned... I stand corrected.
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  7. #17
    Tech Guru synthet1c's Avatar
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    Actually I do know LOL

    basically the whole record is pitch from start to finish, this is to tell the software the absolute track position when you do a needle drop, then the smart part about it is that the left and right channels are played slightly apart, this lets the software know the speed the record is moving and whether it's moving forwards or backwards by calculating the disparity between the left and right channel...

    The thing about the signal being 2000Hz means that it is recorded at that frequency, serato is done at 1000Hz therefore traktor has double the timecode resolution of serato...

    Honestly I'm gonna leave this alone I don't even use the software in question, If you want help with vdj's config holla, cause I am being no help here... good luck
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  8. #18
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    Whilst you have the general idea (and honestly anyone who knows how to use timecode will understand the basics), what I meant was that you don't have the actual algorithm used to calculate these positions.

    Without such intrinsic information you can only make educated guesses about what is really happening. We aren't discussing the overall scheme of the system, we are discussing the nuances of the timecode algorithm.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patch View Post
    Well I'll be goddamned... I stand corrected.
    Yeah…computers are kind of impressive. They're a lot more precise than vinyl-cutters and motors.

  10. #20
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    I finally figured out wtf is wrong.

    I was using 96khz in my audio settings. It is the one thing I never changed in all the tests I did, today, I downgraded it to 48khz and man it is like night and day in terms of easyness of mixing.

    Its like all the difficulty I had before has turned it into ez mode

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