1210 M5G pitch resolution
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  1. #1
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    Default 1210 M5G pitch resolution

    My pitch control seems to increment about 0.09 per movement... that seems to be its resolution. Its kinda annoying.

    Lack of info about this on the interwebs as well.
    Last edited by Kaek; 03-16-2012 at 05:11 AM.

  2. #2
    Tech Guru mostapha's Avatar
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    The m5g pitch resolution is plenty good enough. If you're having problems, it's not the fader's fault.

  3. #3
    Tech Guru Patch's Avatar
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    Also - per movement? How do you measure "a movement"?
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  4. #4
    Tech Guru synthet1c's Avatar
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    To hazard a guess I'd say that the track is following the turntable, it is just the bpm on the screen doesn't update to cover up the fluctuations of the bpm that happens with all dvs systems... When using timecodes you should be using your ears not watching the screen as your ears don't lie but the screen can be wrong, also if using your ears you tend to make finer adjustments to the platter speed which leads to better more precise mixing... At least it does with me
    Why did the elephant get lost... Cause the Jungle is MASSIVE!

  5. #5
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    I am using DVS.

    This is how I am measuring a "movement".

    What I am doing is I am loading a track onto traktor and then playing using the control vinyl.
    Lets say my current track is playing at 174.91 bpm. I then move the fader a tiny little bit and wait, then see if traktors bpm counter has changed.

    I repeat this until it changes. I don't have to move the fader very far, it maybe moves 2 mm. What happens though is that the bpm increments from 174.91 to 175.0.


    I am finding that i am having a really hard time beatmatching tracks which are only 1 bpm different at drum and bass speeds. I am doing this by ear, I can easily hear it drift but I am unable to move the fader in a way which allows me to lock the two decks together.

    This means I am constantly pitch riding which I find incredibly annoying.

    As an example I have a track, normal bpm is 172, I have it pitched up to 176.75. On the other deck I am trying to mix in a 173 bpm tune, the closest I can beatmatch it to is 176.70 or 176.80.
    To me a 0.05 difference in bpm is easily noticeable to my ears, I can hear it drift after a few seconds.

    I took out some old vinyl though last night and tried beatmatching it to the control vinyl, so DVS on one side, real vinyl on the otherside and I didn't encounter this issue.

    So that got me suspecting that it isn't the turntable pitch control, it might be traktor can't detect such small changes in pitch.

    So at this stage I am a bit confused, is it the turntables? Or Traktor?

    I know I am beatmatching correctly here.

  6. #6
    Tech Guru synthet1c's Avatar
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    If "a 0.05 difference in bpm is easily noticeable to my ears" is true, then fix the matching with your ears and ignore the screen...

    Traktor although I don't use it has the highest frequency timecode at 2000Hz, it can easily pick up changes in speed. If the bpm doesn't fluctuate (that means bounce around +/-0.03bpm) then NI have probably made the bpm on screen less sensitive so it doesn't bounce as this would cause more concern with users "you should search on the vdj forum about it" it makes no difference to mixing but everyone thinks there is something wrong...
    Why did the elephant get lost... Cause the Jungle is MASSIVE!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by synthet1c View Post
    If "a 0.05 difference in bpm is easily noticeable to my ears" is true, then fix the matching with your ears and ignore the screen...

    Traktor although I don't use it has the highest frequency timecode at 2000Hz, it can easily pick up changes in speed. If the bpm doesn't fluctuate (that means bounce around +/-0.03bpm) then NI have probably made the bpm on screen less sensitive so it doesn't bounce as this would cause more concern with users "you should search on the vdj forum about it" it makes no difference to mixing but everyone thinks there is something wrong...
    I don't think you understand that although I can hear the drift I cannot move the fader in a way which actually matches the bpm. In my example I have a choice of 176.7 or 176.8.

    This is my complaint about pitch resolution. You are telling me to go fix it and I would if the tools would let me. I'm only using the screen to provide objective information about what is going on. I can beatmatch by ear, I learnt how to do that when I first started DJing.

    Without objective information though you are unable to follow what I am talking about.

    This problem does affect my mixing as I tend to do 2.5 min blends and therefore it is important for me to get the bpm right. Currently I have to pitch ride the fader constantly as I it keeps drifting due to this issue.
    And the BPM does fluctuate about +/-0.03bpm for your information.

  8. #8
    Tech Guru mostapha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaek View Post
    This means I am constantly pitch riding which I find incredibly annoying.
    Welcome to mixing with vinyl. If you don't like it, switch to CDJs or controllers. They don't use physical motors the same way, so it's easier to set a pitch and leave it.

    When I actually mapped a MIDI fader to control pitch in TP, I could easly get within .01BPM by ear. On Vinyl, I can't get that close, and no turntable ever will. It has to do with it being a physical motor. That doesn't, for a second, mean that I can't get perfectly smooth mixes, it just means that you have to babysit. If anything, the m5g required less babysitting than any other turntable I've personally used.

    BTW, unless your beat grids are perfect, you kind of have to babysit with Sync as well…and CDJs are somewhere b/t sync and vinyl.

  9. #9
    Tech Guru synthet1c's Avatar
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    honestly I use the questionable turntables HDT 4.5 with the the most questionable software vdj with absoutely no problems beatmatching, The only other suggestion is set up your timecode config perfectly... there will be how to's all over the internet. If that doesn't work check all the grounds (especially the cartridge), if it still doesn't work swap the headshells around to rule out a problem with the carts... if that still doesn't work replace your vinyl... If all that is ruled out then you have a problem..
    Why did the elephant get lost... Cause the Jungle is MASSIVE!

  10. #10
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    I get the same thing with TS, but i only find it a minor annoyance. I can get close enough that I can keep everything lined up with a brush on the platter or a twist of the spindle every couple measures, which is simple enough to bounce to. I suppose it would be more annoying with DnB.

    That said, I also have rather beat up techs that are long overdue for an overhaul. One needs a new tonearm, and the pitch faders are in bad shape. If I could afford to fix em...
    Yeah that's right, I can chat about Dante's Inferno, discuss the theories of John Locke, discourse on the microeconomics of international trade, investigate the kinetics of enzymes in various microenvironments, and model the price of WTI oil futures. But the best paying job I've had so far is sanitation. Thanks liberal arts.

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