Use BPM counter or beatmatch by ear? - Page 5
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  1. #41
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    When I first started I just straight up used sync. As I got better, though, I just naturally picked up how to beat match by ear.

    I hardly ever need to do it manually, though. Almost all of my music is either pre-gridded or labeled correctly. And if it isn't, the "tap" feature on Traktor will detect it correctly 95% of the time in a matter of seconds - it's instantly obvious if the software messes up your grid.

    There are some tracks that give Traktor a hard time on the fly, though. Beatmatching by ear is helpful then, I suppose, but it's a situation I rarely encounter.

  2. #42
    Tech Mentor Sn0wday's Avatar
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    I use sync, I've kind fo naturally learned how to beatmatch in it's most basic form, if it's a genre I'm really used to and things are cued up.

    But IMO it IS a dying skill, and the argument that "because beatmatching is dying means that everyone will DJ / no skill will be involved" is so incredibly stupid and ignorant in itself. Of course people will innovate, new skills will be formed. Yes, basic Djing will be a whole lot easier, but that means the bar will be higher for whats expected of a DJ. Promotors/Club owners aren't stupid, just because beatmatching is easy now doesn't mean they'll hire just whatever shmuck picked up a controller, a new standard will arise.

    And also it creates time for DJs to dabble in production, outside of pure hip-hop DJ's, I think the future of DJing is controllers and production.

    And really, why so much fighting/bickering? I ski, I mostly do park skiing (Controller?), but I still love to ride powder and slopes (vinyl/cdj?) every now and then, because it's fun. Hahaha I making a really far out analogy, but park skiing is sort of new and this freestyle skiing is really blowing up. Some, very few, people are saying this new skiing isn't "real skiing" cause it's not crusing down the side of a cliff face, but mostly people just accept it as different and everyone rides whatever they feel like, no strife, more often than not people love it because there are so many kinds of skiing to explore. All love(:

    Or maybe this quarreling is just spawned by online forums no matter WHAT the topic is.

  3. #43
    Tech Wizard tech2400's Avatar
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    being in control of your audience and playing the right track at the right time makes you a good DJ, how u do it doesnt matter, wether you synch, beatmatch or cheat.
    Denon DN-X1600.Traktor X1.Macbook.http://soundcloud.com/jaskotech

  4. #44
    Tech Guru SirReal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tech2400 View Post
    being in control of your audience and playing the right track at the right time makes you a good DJ, how u do it doesnt matter, wether you synch, beatmatch or cheat.
    Based on your comment, how would a DJ cheat?
    "Walking the fine line between Stupidity and Genious" My Soundcloud ---- My Mixcloud
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirReal View Post
    Based on your comment, how would a DJ cheat?
    for example, some djs. lets say one of the SHM boys, pop in a cd, has a pre recorded set playing.
    Denon DN-X1600.Traktor X1.Macbook.http://soundcloud.com/jaskotech

  6. #46
    Tech Guru SirReal's Avatar
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    Valid point. So, in your opinion using sync is fine but pre-recorded is cheating? I'm not taking a piss, I'm genuinely interested. These threads always interest me. I've come from vinyl, through cd's and now to controllers and an external mixer. While I have no problem beat matching, I find myself using sync more and more. I used to think "using sync" was cheating but now I can honestly say I'm mixing for much longer periods. I used to mix 2 tracks about 1 to 2 minutes, now I very rarely have only one track playing at a time.
    "Walking the fine line between Stupidity and Genious" My Soundcloud ---- My Mixcloud
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  7. #47
    Tech Wizard tech2400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirReal View Post
    Valid point. So, in your opinion using sync is fine but pre-recorded is cheating? I'm not taking a piss, I'm genuinely interested. These threads always interest me. I've come from vinyl, through cd's and now to controllers and an external mixer. While I have no problem beat matching, I find myself using sync more and more. I used to think "using sync" was cheating but now I can honestly say I'm mixing for much longer periods. I used to mix 2 tracks about 1 to 2 minutes, now I very rarely have only one track playing at a time.
    more like cheating out the audience, but who cares, only other djs care, vinyl djs said, when cdjs came out that they are not real djs bc they can see bmp counters, now controllers came out, cdj guys think that they are cheating bc of sync and are not real djs, its technology, move on. nobody will ever win this debate.
    Denon DN-X1600.Traktor X1.Macbook.http://soundcloud.com/jaskotech

  8. #48
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    How do you set accurate beatgrids if you can't beatmatch by ear?

    Beatmatching by ear isn't a dead skill, even in todays digital "sync button" world. Traktors grid detection is absolutely horrible and I never trust any autogrid traktor lays down.

    Whenever I get a new tune I get traktor to analyse it and then I almost always have to correct its transient detection.
    After that I go it a few seconds of playing with the metronome.

    Having accurate beat grids is going to be more and more important as the world of producer and DJ collide. You just can't make accurate use of the Remix decks if you don't have accurate beatgrids.

    The software isn't there yet, I look forward to the day I don't have to grid anything manually. Until then, learn how to beatmatch by ear.

  9. #49
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    The only real cheating is prerecording mixes and standing up there and turning knobs to act like you're doing something. The BPM counter is a tool. You can still have 2 songs with the same BPM not beatmatched so I really don't get what you're talking about. It doesn't take a genius to hear a train wreck. What do you think the pitch control on the side of a turntable is for, you bring the BPM of the record you're trying to mix in to match the BPM of the record thats playing. 20+ years ago I would use an electronic metronome to time out every record and write the BPM on a sticker and stick it on the record sleeve or write on the label. All my records were in BPM order because without keylock you couldn't go anymore than + or - 3 bpm or else it didn't sound right. It would have saved me a lot of time to have a BPM counter back then. Using the tools and technology that make it easier for you to mix music live isn't cheating. It allows for more creativity. I would have killed for keylock in 1990.

    People fail to mention that Traktor has 2 sync modes, by beat or by tempo. Syncing by tempo will just bring your track to the same tempo as the master track which is the same as moving a pitch slider, only its faster. Beat syncing only works if the grids are right but even if they aren't you can nudge it if the tempo is right.

    IMO all of you who talk about not looking at the BPM counter, not wanting to do a gig without knowing how to beatmatch by ear or not wanting to offend anyone or not honoring the "art" of DJing need to stop worrying about what other people think and do you. The people you are worrying about offending aren't paying you, so who cares if they are offended. The club owner, bar owner or more importantly the crowd listening to you could not carry any less about whether you beat match by ear or hit the sync button. They will care if you train wreck and sound horrible. You are not proving anything to anyone by not taking a gig because you don't think you can beatmatch by ear. You're just leaving the gig and the money for someone else.

    All this talk about laptop failing, controller failing, cd scratched, record warped, lightining striking, zombies attacking your S4....more nonsense. Sh*t happens no matter what you use.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaek View Post
    How do you set accurate beatgrids if you can't beatmatch by ear?
    Quite easily, really. If it's obvious the beat grid is off, using the tap function gets the grid right 95% of the time... and then it's very obvious if it still can't get it right.

    At that point, you simply lay down a grid marker at the downbeat of the song, and watch the beatgrid line up with the correct bass lines that you hear. Use the expand/contract buttons until the beatgrid visually and audibly lines up with the beats. Making adjustments every bar instead of every beat is a bit easier.

    This worst case scenario takes 10-20 seconds and happens to me maybe a few times a month.

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