Where is the love?
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  1. #1
    Tech Guru Cook's Avatar
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    Default Where is the love?

    Ok here we go, most of you know im not the most 'conventional' person on here, and im half cut, so here. we. go.
    Im looking here for a proper discussion, this is not a (proper) troll.

    Seriously? where is the love for these big name 'DJs' Watching some of these videos from UMF over the week and downloaded some of the mp3 sets onto my ipod and i cant get enough, Ok so tiesto was a big name a few years ago, still big, his set at UMF was pretty fucking good, yet anywhere i go (not seen it so much in here though), i hear the usual phrase, oh tiesto? hes shit now, funny that because even though not as big as he is anymore, he is still more famous than 90% of the population will EVER be, the guys mixing was pretty fucking good, probably better than a lot of DJs who have called him 'shit' and certianly better than the rest of the populations.

    Is it jealousy?

    Skrillex is another one, yes he 'performs' with ableton, and he scored quite highly on the 'dj' top 100, ok we can all make the assumption he may be a shit DJ, but whos to say when he is using CDJs he is performing at his 100%? im pretty sure dubstep isnt as technical and creative to mix as say, house, or even some of the harder genre's, and if he tried to over technicalise himself, it would sound worse? are his mixes smooth? (can i call dubstep smooth?) are they pitched and in time? yes? im pretty sure that makes to an ok DJ, even if he cant "beatmatch by vinyl", haters will call his productions shit, dubstep is shit, etc etc, youve all heard it all before, but im pretty sure someone who is 'SHIT' wins the first (i think) Grammys for EDM, and did it three times.

    Next on the agenda is, David guetta is a sell-out, ill ask you this question, if i offered you the man's fame and money, to work with some of the best in the industry, make your music sound a bit more popier and catchy, and top40esque? and to be a 'sellout' and play to thousands upon thousands of people and be set up for life in luxury, would you do it? of course you would, anyone who wouldnt is just plain stupid, a few years ago i seen chase and status play to a crowd of <300 in glasgow, then they became a little more of a 'sellout', collabarated with a few 'pop' artists, released an album, no more idols, now they are headlining festivals, playing to again, thousands upon thousands of people at a time, doing something they love.

    Examples over, my bit now,
    Why all the hate? ok i dont like dubstep at all, but i can see that skrillex has done something nobody has managed to do before him, the guy went from the frontman of a shit emo band to near instant stardom, because he bloody well worked for it. Mark sherry, the trance artist, some may have heard of some may not have posted some inspirational words up on facebook earlier,

    Newcomer trance DJ's and producers that aren't willing to put at least 12 hours a day into producing and sourcing/editting music for their sets PLUS keep their online presence/portals/profiles bang up to date, just aren't gonna go very far in my opinion. Seems to me that these days that a lot of young producers/DJ's expect big success overnight and to be booked to play everywhere after only having 1 or 2 single releases, this is complete craziness!! Work your asses off and yeah things will more than likely go well and start to happen for you, but don't get completely dillusional along the way. I try and help/guide as many newcomers as i can whether it's helping them with their production or giving them a push on the show, but it annoys me when i occasionally speak to young guys that expect everything to happen REALLY fast. There's no quick fix in the music industry! :0/
    And this could not have been truer, Yes i love this forum, and many of the people on it, some work insanely hard for what they have, some havent (myself included) but still work towards something they would KILL to do as a full time career, and it does break my heart everytime i see someone sign up just to ask the question 'hi all, im new to DJing, what should i buy?' or, i wana be the next skrillex, what do i buy to be the best dj in the world, etc etc.

    My dad always told me, (now he NEVER liked anything with a 4x4 beat to it), selling music isnt about what you like, its about what everyone else likes. My Brother is a Jazz saxophonist, pretty high grade, highly technical etc etc, went for the national youth orchestra auditions a couple of weeks ago and i think he was accepted (not 100% on that) and is about to start uni doing classical writing, where does he work? the apple shop. because who likes classical jazz these days? not a big enough crowd to get him weekly gigs anyway.

    now i know i have used serious commercial names here, and there are artists just as big who haven't 'sold out',
    But put yourself in their shoes,

    Somebody likes my sound, but thinks i should do this and that with it, no i dont want to work with rihanna i hate that bitch, works rest of life in a factory doing the odd bit of DJing on a friday and saturday

    or

    Somebody likes my sound, and thinks i should do this and that with it, ok its not perfect but its catchy, oh hey rihanna you want to work with me too? lets go, 'works' rest of life flying all around the world playing to people who adore you, meeting the best of stars (even if you dont like them) and just generally being a VIP.



    where is the love?
    /rant
    Last edited by Cook; 03-29-2012 at 05:48 PM.
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  2. #2
    Tech Mentor seitz's Avatar
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    agree except when big name djs start "faking" djing...i respected guetta up till i saw pictures of him with cdjs that dont have cds in them or shiningians

  3. #3
    Tech Guru MyUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoodless View Post
    im pretty sure dubstep isnt as technical and creative to mix as say, house, or even some of the harder genre's/rant
    whoa whoa,I don't quite follow,...

    I was gonna say some stuff but I can't compose a decent because I'm awake for 22 hours straight, so when I'm well rested I'll speak my mind.

    just gonna leave this here: I was talking to a professional house DJ and we were talking about mixing and he said he had no idea how to mix dubstep except maybe like cutting, and let alone being able to count it. He just beatmatches all night long and that's it and he just layers the drums and bass of each track over each other and thats his mix. I want to continue this but my mind says no. I really need slepe now. I'll be back

  4. #4
    Tech Mentor Sn0wday's Avatar
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    I see your point, I stay away from the hate, david guetta can do what david guetta wants, not my problem haha. Skrillex hate is ridiculous, and it's simply a trend that will die off soon.

    I can see it becoming a cop out when people hate on skrillex when buffing up who they like, it was one thing when people who like OG dubstep vented about skrillex, but now people are saying shit like "This is so much better than gay skrillex shit" on youtubes dubstep channels for artists that are clearly in the same "brostep" boat. Can you really hate on skrillex and say how much more of "True dubstep" Flux Pavilion is? No, that's when you're just bandwagoning.

    Well, it can't be denied people are starting DJing because they want to "drop the bass" and be like skrillex, but i think some of that can be blamed on NI when most commercials before EDM on Youtube goes like.. "Want to.. Drop The Bass?! Pick up the NEW Traktor Kontrol S2 from NI!!!!"

  5. #5
    Tech Guru DigitalDevil's Avatar
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    The more popular anyone or anything is, the more haters they're gonna have. Its not like its exclusive to music producers.

    As for "selling out", Guetta and Skrillex have never really changed their approach to music (unless you include the transition from FFTL to Skrillex, I guess), they've just gotten some good promotion doing what they've always been doing. Tiesto on the other hand has kind of been riding the wave of shifting genres in line with what's popular, but I can't really hate on him either because some of his older tracks and mixes were hugely influential for me, personally.

  6. #6
    Tech Mentor Sn0wday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalDevil View Post
    The more popular anyone or anything is, the more haters they're gonna have. Its not like its exclusive to music producers.

    As for "selling out", Guetta and Skrillex have never really changed their approach to music (unless you include the transition from FFTL to Skrillex, I guess), they've just gotten some good promotion doing what they've always been doing. Tiesto on the other hand has kind of been riding the wave of shifting genres in line with what's popular, but I can't really hate on him either because some of his older tracks and mixes were hugely influential for me, personally.
    QFT. If ANYTHING, Skrillex has gotten less poppy (In comparison to like, his first EP)

    Haters are everywhere.

  7. #7
    Tech Guru lethal_pizzle's Avatar
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    As long as I'm allowed to like what I like and dislike what I dislike. Then that's fine.

    I dislike Guetta's music. And if I'm asked about it, I'll say so. You can't have a discussion with someone about the relative merits of an artist if they've never heard of them, can you?

    I couldn't give a flying fat one about how rich or famous he is. I'm pretty sure he'll be OK though when my judgement filters thru!
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  8. #8
    Tech Guru guiltyblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalDevil View Post
    The more popular anyone or anything is, the more haters they're gonna have. Its not like its exclusive to music producers.

    As for "selling out", Guetta and Skrillex have never really changed their approach to music (unless you include the transition from FFTL to Skrillex, I guess), they've just gotten some good promotion doing what they've always been doing. Tiesto on the other hand has kind of been riding the wave of shifting genres in line with what's popular, but I can't really hate on him either because some of his older tracks and mixes were hugely influential for me, personally.
    Tiesto basically bad mouth trance, where he got his start from, where he got huge from, calling it garbage and too easy and went Electro. To me thats just poor form imo. You might transition to other things, but to call where you came from easy and boring is just ridic. This is my main dislike of Tiesto. Guetta rode the wave of F*ck me im famous party but couldn't produce any of his own tracks. Joachim Garraud admitted to producing Guettas tracks for the first 5-7 years of Guettas career. Since 2007 is when Guetta actually started producing his own tracks.

    Not that anyone actually knows many of these things. And not that I care, I like some of both of there stuff at times. BUT I dislike tiesto because of his attitude toward electronic. Like he invented it or something. Guetta I could care less about but I don't totally dislike the guy.

  9. #9
    Tech Mentor elio_xh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guiltyblade View Post
    Tiesto basically bad mouth trance, where he got his start from, where he got huge from, calling it garbage and too easy and went Electro. To me thats just poor form imo. You might transition to other things, but to call where you came from easy and boring is just ridic. This is my main dislike of Tiesto. Guetta rode the wave of F*ck me im famous party but couldn't produce any of his own tracks. Joachim Garraud admitted to producing Guettas tracks for the first 5-7 years of Guettas career. Since 2007 is when Guetta actually started producing his own tracks.
    And i recall i saw an interview with Tiesto where he said that he's producing house music now because it's "what's big".

    But related to the topic, I'm with the OP on this one. The one aspect of all this hate that I don't particularly is the concept of "bad music". I don't think there exists bad music in this world, music is a form of artistic expression, regardless if you do it live or in a studio. When someone creates music, they get a release from it, and that's something you can't really take away from the artists. Some songs don't appeal to certain people, but you can't say that what the artists loves to do is bad. It's weird, because I never see graphical art referred to as "bad", i feel it rests solely in the music industry, but there isn't a real difference between the two fields.

    Another thing I'm totally against is when people on artist's pages on FB or even their youtube videos, and tell them how much they suck. These people are putting their time into something they love, why do you feel the need to do that? I was watching the deadmau5 on ustream late at night once, and the later it goes the more interesting it gets because he shows who he really is. He was talking about people commenting on things he posts, and he said he doesn't mind the one like comments, but he said the long rants people post on his wall really get to him, because if it took them that much time to write, they must really believe it. The public\s gotten quite harsh towards some artists and their music, but people (I do it too) sometimes forget that artists are real people, not just internet characters. There's so much hostility and hate online, and I agree with the OP, there needs to be more love towards artists for what they do.
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  10. #10
    Tech Guru guiltyblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elio_xh View Post
    And i recall i saw an interview with Tiesto where he said that he's producing house music now because it's "what's big".

    But related to the topic, I'm with the OP on this one. The one aspect of all this hate that I don't particularly is the concept of "bad music". I don't think there exists bad music in this world, music is a form of artistic expression, regardless if you do it live or in a studio. When someone creates music, they get a release from it, and that's something you can't really take away from the artists. Some songs don't appeal to certain people, but you can't say that what the artists loves to do is bad. It's weird, because I never see graphical art referred to as "bad", i feel it rests solely in the music industry, but there isn't a real difference between the two fields.

    Another thing I'm totally against is when people on artist's pages on FB or even their youtube videos, and tell them how much they suck. These people are putting their time into something they love, why do you feel the need to do that? I was watching the deadmau5 on ustream late at night once, and the later it goes the more interesting it gets because he shows who he really is. He was talking about people commenting on things he posts, and he said he doesn't mind the one like comments, but he said the long rants people post on his wall really get to him, because if it took them that much time to write, they must really believe it. The public\s gotten quite harsh towards some artists and their music, but people (I do it too) sometimes forget that artists are real people, not just internet characters. There's so much hostility and hate online, and I agree with the OP, there needs to be more love towards artists for what they do.
    Tiesto noted he got out of trance because its not evolving anymore and wasn't interesting anymore.

    He was quoted a couple different ways saying he was bored of trance. Trance was going downhill etc. He had some old tweets really downplaying it. I know its not everyones bag, but it made him who he is. To downplay it is not so nice.

    "The biggest thing to happen for me this year is my change in style. I play more eclectic, much more house-driven, and like, indie pop music. The whole trance part is deleted from my set now. It is completely gone. It was a revolutionary thing for me."

    "I just didn't like the old trancey sounds anymore," he continues. "It just all started to sound the same to me. Already in Ibiza last year, I had started to play like that, and I saw that the people were up for everything, and it felt great. I'm still learning, experimenting with where to drop which tracks. But everyone's very supportive."

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