Clipping & Line Levels

[BentoSan]

ahh ok .... so, what i was playing with last night was just leaving auto gain feature on for the channels in traktor as that would prevent clipping, then turning the master down in traktor so no red lights, then just making sure no red lights on djm600 channels or master.

Voila ... no clipping ??

I dont know my experimentation with autogain didnt go to well, i found that even some songs will clip even though they have been though autogain :\ If traktor is still having that issue then yes it could be problem - i should retest this feature now theres been a couple updates.

Trust the meters that are on the two line levels and the master meter, and most imporantly trust your ears above anything else.

[DvlsAdvct]

Trust the meters that are on the two line levels and the master meter, and most imporantly trust your ears above anything else.

This is really what it comes down to. I've had luck with the autogain, but it can't be the only thing keeping you from clipping.

[Karlos Santos]

I dont know my experimentation with autogain didnt go to well, i found that even some songs will clip even though they have been though autogain :\ .

Autogain has zero effect on clipping . All it does is level the output of each deck. If you push the master you will clip. If you push the one of channel faders you eliminate the autogain anyway.
All autogain does is set all tracks at either + or - 0.0 db . This is determined in the analysis of a track.
In theory if 2 tracks of totally different volumes are loaded into 2 decks the and the channel faders are at the same level they will play at the same volume when Autogain is on.

[BentoSan]

Hmm that makes sense, so it autogain is causeing your track to clip that would be because your other track is already probably clipping.

[Karlos Santos]

Exactly. Thats because your master or channel faders are already to high.

I use autogain but just to level the volumes of tracks i dont rely on it. You still need to ride the master or channel faders. I just see it as a helpful tool but i still rely on my old DJ judgement.
If you can keep your Master volume down to a good level on Traktor you will not clip with autogain on .

[MisterMoleyMole]

So are we saying that with auto gain on and the line fader all the way to the top you could be clipping?

Forget the master for now lets just concentrate on the one single line fader.

[Karlos Santos]

Yes. If the Master is set high. You cant clip if the Master is set low.

Are you mixing internally (with the VCI) If your line faders are at the top then something is wrong. Your channel faders should be much lower. so you have room to mix.

Every MP3 has a different volume level. Some tracks are quieter than others. Traktor has a db level that it considers to be the right level for all tracks, 0.0db. If a track is quieter than the 0.0 level (lets say 1.4db lower) Auto gain will raise the volume of a quiet track by 1.4 db to make it 0.0db so it will show a reading in the 'Analysed' Field of +1.4db (check the Analysed field in the browser to see how much autogain has altered the volume.)

This is all independent of the channel faders. Its internal.

Bring your channel faders down and push the Master a bit so you have got some room to mix with the channel faders.

[MisterMoleyMole]

Forget the master i said, just think of the master as being set really low just turned up enough to let a bit of sound through. ( i know this isnt realistic but its just to get my question understood )

The channel faders within traktor are the first part of the chain where there could be clipping occuring and if it occurs here there is no point thinking about any other part of the chain.

So ... if i have auto gain set which levels the tracks to 0.00 db at its loudest point, and then the channel fader is at the top would i be creating a clipped signal through that channel only? Forget even any other channel just this one first channel / part of the chain

Cheers
Gav

[Karlos Santos]

Lol. Ok technically going off what you said you will not clip with the channel faders at the top unless you add tons of eq and effects . They all affect volume output.
This is why you must have the faders lower.

BUT you keep saying forget the Master but your not actually forgetting the Master yourself. You wont clip doing what you said 'because' the master is low.

I dont understand why you want the faders at the top ?

I see where your coming from but this 'chain' you mention doesnt really work in such a linear way. To prevent clipping you have to take all things into consideration together, EQ/Faders/Master/FX.

[DvlsAdvct]

Keep in mind, technically, the order everything goes is

Track Gain (the level the track is recorded at) --> Gain --> EQ --> Volume --> Master.

And then it's plugged into another mixer that's going

Levels from Master in Traktor -->Gain --> EQ --> Volume --> Master Out

Then it's going to an amp, etc. etc. etc.

So, really, if Traktor is boosting the levels to 0.0 db based on its analysis, you want to make sure your EQ and Gain are spot on so that it won't clip. The clipping is, in my view, most likely to happen before you hit the volume faders, or the Master Out.

That make sense?