Hello! Any advice for a rookie?

[binary]

Personally I know i buy something cheap to see if I like it, when I like it I go all out in order to save money over the long term...

Yeah, that is totally me. Which also means, if this time around happens, next time is easily going to be a few grand.

It is just hard to be even $1000 sure about DJing at this point, so I am hesitant. Today, tomorrow and even next week there is no doubt it would be enjoyable; I'm not sure about 3/6/9 months out though. The better things go in terms gear selection and music availability are probably key factors in how well it holds my interest. For whatever reason, predicting the future always seems to be a real challenge!

Maybe I'll try TTs and realize they're not for me, it is so hard to say. I consider $1300 to be a somewhat inexpensive initial setup from the perspective of a DJ but from the perspective of an moderately-unsure amateur hobbyist it is expensive. Right now getting my feet wet is sort of the goal, but my concerns about my own capabilities and the compatibility/completeness of my setup are bigger issues.

Don't get me wrong, I want to do this badly (at least now); I just don't want to realize it was a big mistake later on. Frankly, if I get the setup and hunger for more, that would be a best-case scenario.

[Carb0n]

Just a few thoughts I want to through out there.

If you're looking for some decent direct-drive turntables, there are a few things to consider.
Low end turntables can be a good low cost solution, but be aware, the quality is often compromised.
With low end tables, you'll run into many plastic parts that are easily breakable.
If you think you'll be lugging your gear around, spending more on quality will go a long way.
If you have the time & patience, personally I'd hunt down a pair of Technics SL-1200's
If you take your time, you can find a pair for around $500-$600.
Not to mention they will last a lifetime and you can often get most, if not all your money back if you sell them.

Same goes with a Timecode solution, look around.
I managed to pick up a used but Mint copy of Traktor Scratch Pro 2 (w/Audio 10) for a few hundred bucks.

Regarding low cost mixers, you can't go wrong with Behringers new NOX line.
They are built solid, you get rather decent quality without breaking the bank.
Personally I'd recommend the NOX404 if you're going to be scratching allot.
If you want the ability to expand and want some extra control on your Mixing the NOX606 is a beast #for the price)

Dicers... well, they pretty much do as advertised.
I'm using a Mashine Mikro to control my cue points, but anything that can send MIDI will work.

[JohnnyDrama]

And about collecting vinyl... I'm not against it! It just sort of boils down to the overall effort required to get started and maintain interest. If I only have a handful of vinyls then I'm probably going to lose interest quickly. I can buy MP3s at 3AM on a Sunday morning when a song pops into my head. I can only think of a small handful of local stores which would carry vinyl, so it would be substantially more difficult to get a specific track.

Don't get this the wrong way but I seriously doubt your motivation to start dj-ing....
It's more like...hey, I love to race cars but if I can't start with a professional car & team...i'm afraid to lose interest.

[binary]

Thanks a lot Carbon, I'm going to look into those things. None of my setup is set in stone and it makes a lot of sense to look into all of these things now.

Used stuff slightly creeps me out, at least if it is new and I break it I know the quality wasn't good enough or I did something terribly wrong. If I get something used and it fails, the cause of the problem might be unclear. I am glad to hear about the plastic parts in lower quality tables, I knew there had to be *something* driving that 6-fold price difference. OTOH, it would obviously be nice to save hundreds of dollars on something other than car insurance

For everyone's information, the gear will probably be stationary and rarely, if ever move. Primarily looking into mixers right now.

[binary]

Don't get this the wrong way but I seriously doubt your motivation to start dj-ing....
It's more like...hey, I love to race cars but if I can't start with a professional car & team...i'm afraid to lose interest.

I don't take it the wrong way and even agree to a point. I understand I am going to spend a lot of time on the same piece of music while getting familiar with navigating vinyl and working on dropping and every other technique; I just don't want to have a small selection of things to choose from. I'm not at all saying I won't enjoy it if I don't have 1200s, a Rane Nine-Thousand, and a huge concert hall to perform in; I'm just saying it is important to me to have more than just a few tracks so I can try different techniques with different kinds of music. Also, I don't have a propensity to start things I don't enjoy, so I am 99% sure it is my next love... but you really can never be completely sure until you're actually doing it.

It is just that needing to find/obtain, care for, and store vinyl adds another dimension to getting things in motion and might make things unnecessarily complex. A timecoded solution will remove that hassle and allow me to focus on what I enjoy, which is why it is such an attractive option to me. Maybe I've completely missed the point, but I don't necessarily see that as a huge problem, and it is something I would like to do in the longer run but I don't see myself getting there for 6~12 months.

[rdale]

If you are looking into making mashups, have you considered ableton and an apc 40? I'm not sure TT and a mixer will be gratifying with low to no skill level, where a controller and something to juggle cue points like a midifighter gets the job done marvelously with less time spent initially learning physical technique, while concentrating on the core of producing sound.

Everyone I knew that got a cheap turntable wished they spent the extra money on Technics and usually wound up getting them later. The resale value on used is going to hold to about what you put in them, or more if you got a deal. Remember you are going to need slipmats, headshells and cartridges too, so that is easily another $150-200.

The S4 and a midifighter mapped to control cue points would give you a base on which you can expand, and not break the bank. The S4 can be used with DVS if you decide to add turntables later, and gives you a four channel mixer in the mean time. While you can be looking for the deal on used 1200's.

You will also need to get a pair of decent headphones and something to use a monitor, all these things add up. You might want to check http://www.proaudiostar.com/ to see if they have a bundle that best fits what you need to get started.

[Carb0n]

I'm going to agree with rdale on that one.

If you're going to go the way of controllers S4 & Mf combo would be a solid bet.
At least with that, you have a solid base to work with. You'll probably achieve more with that setup then you would with turntables in terms of mashups/remixes..etc.

I personally went with vinyl for the same reason you want it.
I'd watch hours of videos of scratch routines that would leave me with goose bumps.
And the hopes of one day matching that level of skill.

I also went with vinyl simply because I was getting bored with my controllers.
I felt I needed more "feel/control" over the sound that only vinyl could deliver.
The only part I regret is breaking the bank. If you cant afford everything at once.. Save up.
I cant stress this enough. I've spent entire paychecks on gear leaving me flat broke for 2 weeks.
If you are impatient and can do it, look into getting some gear financed through a local music shop.
You could easily get a decent mixer along with serato/traktor and maybe some monitors.
That way you'd pay a low monthly fee and still have cash to pick up some 1200's

[Mahoney86]

Judging for your unsurety I would say youre best bet for the time being is to get a controller. You can get some really nice controllers at some cheap price points. Go to Guitar Center and check out their clearance/discontinued section, sometimes you can get gear for 1/4 of the price.

Get a controller and mess around, see if you like it, not for a week or a month but for a few months because everything is usually fun at first. Then make youre move. SL-1200s are the only TT in my mind. I first hard some cheap Numarks and I hated them and ended up going to SL-1210s and taking a bath on my cheap Numarks. Myself personally I was not a big fan of TTs but at the time thats what I had. Now back into DJing 8 years later, I bought a cheap controller to see if I still had the itch, bought a better controller thinking I wanted to go the controller route and now Ive decided CDJs are more where I want to be.

[binary]

I did go to Guitar Center today and checked out some of their setups, played with an S4 and the Traktor software a bit. Not sure if it has to do with the diameter of CDJs or what, but even the large CDJs (Pioneers, I guess) have a strange feeling about them that I really don't like. They had Dicers on the same setup, which were cool but most of the audio was repetitive to begin with, so adding dicers didn't really provide much in terms of variation. They had no TT display units at all

The music selection in Traktor was limited to what seemed to be defaults: "Techno Beat 1", "Techno Beat 2", "Percussion 1", etc... so not much fun to be had there. There are also other issues I wouldn't have at home but which made it difficult to really experience: the space available for the mouse was only about twice the size of the mouse itself (made dragging tracks around nearly impossible); the S4 was on a tray which didn't slide all the way out, etc.

There was a B52 Prodigy/CDJ unit for $439 on clearance, but that was the closest thing that would really apply. Besides not really wanting to go the CDJ route, I've seen several reviews complaining of issues with the CD units on the Prodigy. My experience with the S4 today did not do anything to help my feelings about CDJs in the least (somewhat unfortunately).

Spending my current estimated total on just a pair of turntables (if I went with *used* 1200s) is a painful thought, now I am left wondering if it is even worth trying to get into at the price range I am currently looking at, if I should wait, or if I should just say "screw it" with regards to the $450 and play on ATLP120s until they break. I could spend more but I don't want to empty my bank account on this (yet). Can someone approximate just how bad ATLP120s might be? How long do you think they'd last? Anything I could do to minimize the likelihood of them breaking?

Similarly, if I got an APC40 ($299) and Ableton ($499), then I am starting to get pretty close to an inexpensive TT setup. I really do appreciate the suggestion and gave it some serious thought, but I want to get to a more hands-on type thing. I already have a computer and could mix music with out a controller, but that doesn't sound like much fun. An S4 ($899?) and a Midi Fighter ($399) would basically be the entire budget, too. While I understand nothing else would be required, that setup is probably not something I would feel very satisfied with.

If a pair of ATLP120s would let me know whether or not the whole thing is for me, then I can be enticed into some 1200s down the road (I'd be ok with eating that loss). If you guys *really* feel they would be a complete waste and there is almost not chance I would be happy with them even in the interim (say 6-12 months), then I will take your word for it and hold off until I'm ready to cave on the idea of picking up a pair of 1200s. It is a tough decision so I appreciate everyone dropping in and adding their 2 cents, your input really helps me mentally navigate all of the possibilities.

[rotebass]

An S4 would be a great first controller, later on you could add Turntables (I'm fairly sure you can run timecode into the S4 inputs), or sell the lot when you've pinned down the direction you want to go it, resale seems to be pretty good...