HELP!!! Incorporating Ableton into my setup on a second computer!!!
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  1. #1

    Default HELP!!! Incorporating Ableton into my setup on a second computer!!!

    Hello Chaps...

    I use Traktor Scratch Pro 2.5 on a Macbook with my decks (control vinyl & CD's) and a Denon DN-X1600, what I am looking to do is incorporate Ableton into my setup on my Windows 7 Laptop.

    My main question here is this...

    Can I use my Denon DN-X1600 to sync Ableton to Traktor using the V-Link (5 pin DIN midi output) capability?

    Looking at various websites, the more traditional method is to use a Midi Interface but before I go and get one, I want to see if this will work first!

    If this method will not be possible, can somebody please explain to me exactly how to do it, in regards to what equipment I will need to buy (any good value suggestions will be greatly appreciated!) and how it actually works?

    I know I'm asking a lot here, but I know that you guys on here really know what you're talking about when it comes to this kind of thing and as I'm a bit old skool, I really need the help!!!

    Thanks in advance guys!!!

    Cheers... Dan!!!

  2. #2
    Tech Guru botstein's Avatar
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    Why not use Traktor and Ableton on the same computer?

    A MIDI interface would work well.

  3. #3

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    Initially I thought that but I'm looking at 4 decks running on Traktor and then using Ableton as a separate entity, I sometimes DJ with a friend and with this we can finally make it a 2 man job and go mental with it!!!

    I want maximum flexibility, and I think that this is the way to achieve it!

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    Bumped!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by botstein View Post
    Why not use Traktor and Ableton on the same computer?

    A MIDI interface would work well.

    I love these comments. I believe the same way Richie Hawtin does.. same with Chris Leibing... Your show is a performance.

    A) It looks alot more entertaining to see things happening all over the place, its a show

    B) Screen Real estate, if you have to spend time alt tabbing windows, trying to get visual feedback, that puts you at risk of screen glare, and because of this 15 to 17 inch screen you will be constantly looking at it if you use ableton for anything other than a wet/dry send effects box.

    C) I run 4 tracks of samples, Massives, FM8 and Maschine off of my Ableton Laptop. On the other is 4 traktor decks, both laptops run their interfaces at 96 samples. With a few instances of massive, an FM8 playing samples and also using the machine as a external fx send, the CPU can have constant activity (be it 15 to 30 percent). Id prefer to know that I have the lowest possible chance of drop outs when pushing the Ableton Laptop to its limits during a set.


    All in all, I use no 3rd party applications (I dont install anything but music related software/files on my music machines) to route audio, one Midi cable, and push play on MIDI Clock.. To each their own I guess.



    Big Dan as far as your question. You will also need a sound interface or a midi interface with MIDI IN (obviously) on the Ableton machine.

    Go from MIDI Out on the Traktor Device to MIDI in on the Ableton Machine. In traktor make sure Send MIdi Clock is active. In the master clock section make sure Master and Auto are highlighted, and hit play, and tick. YOu should hear and audible tick from your traktor Machine (while monitoring or however you have it setup)

    Then in Ableton to you need to make sure the MIDI Device recieving the singal has its Sync button on, in MIDI Sync in preferences. Within the main control surface you should click the "EXT" button top left ot receive external midi clock. Hit play with the metronome on, and this should give you an indication of how far off the sync is.

    From here you need to go back into the MIDI Sync prefernce tab, and expand the device you are using to recieve the midi signal, there should be a few options, one being Sync Delay. You need to adjust this up or down and "beat match" your two metronomes from each machine. And Voila, you now have tempo synced laptops.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by balakoth View Post
    I love these comments. I believe the same way Richie Hawtin does.. same with Chris Leibing... Your show is a performance.

    A) It looks alot more entertaining to see things happening all over the place, its a show

    B) Screen Real estate, if you have to spend time alt tabbing windows, trying to get visual feedback, that puts you at risk of screen glare, and because of this 15 to 17 inch screen you will be constantly looking at it if you use ableton for anything other than a wet/dry send effects box.

    C) I run 4 tracks of samples, Massives, FM8 and Maschine off of my Ableton Laptop. On the other is 4 traktor decks, both laptops run their interfaces at 96 samples. With a few instances of massive, an FM8 playing samples and also using the machine as a external fx send, the CPU can have constant activity (be it 15 to 30 percent). Id prefer to know that I have the lowest possible chance of drop outs when pushing the Ableton Laptop to its limits during a set.


    All in all, I use no 3rd party applications (I dont install anything but music related software/files on my music machines) to route audio, one Midi cable, and push play on MIDI Clock.. To each their own I guess.



    Big Dan as far as your question. You will also need a sound interface or a midi interface with MIDI IN (obviously) on the Ableton machine.

    Go from MIDI Out on the Traktor Device to MIDI in on the Ableton Machine. In traktor make sure Send MIdi Clock is active. In the master clock section make sure Master and Auto are highlighted, and hit play, and tick. YOu should hear and audible tick from your traktor Machine (while monitoring or however you have it setup)

    Then in Ableton to you need to make sure the MIDI Device recieving the singal has its Sync button on, in MIDI Sync in preferences. Within the main control surface you should click the "EXT" button top left ot receive external midi clock. Hit play with the metronome on, and this should give you an indication of how far off the sync is.

    From here you need to go back into the MIDI Sync prefernce tab, and expand the device you are using to recieve the midi signal, there should be a few options, one being Sync Delay. You need to adjust this up or down and "beat match" your two metronomes from each machine. And Voila, you now have tempo synced laptops.
    Now we're getting somewhere!!!

    I am using a Mac for Traktor with 4 decks using timecoded vinyl & CD's also a Denon DN-X1600 mixer (This has Midi out, but looks as though it can only be used for video purposes???)

    I need to get the midi signal from either the Mac or the Denon mixer to the laptop, this is where I'm confused!!!

    If I get the midi signal from the Mac, how is best to do it???

    I thought that I could go from the Mac into a USB midi interface then route the signal out to the laptop via USB again, I've only got 2 USB ports on the Mac though, so I thought of using firewire, but midi interfaces with firewire seem to be expensive!!!

    Either way I manage to do it, how then do I get the sound from Ableton on the laptop into the mix???

    I'm going to upgrade my studio soon with some new monitors, I would need an external mixer for this due to my current configuration so, I then though I could have the sound from the laptop into one channel, decks into another channel then route the master out to both my sound system and my studio PC.

    When you start wanting to get creative and add more equipment to your set up it gets really complicated and fries my brain!!!

    It's got to be possible though hasn't it!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by balakoth View Post
    I love these comments.
    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by balakoth View Post
    A) It looks alot more entertaining to see things happening all over the place, its a show
    Between 2-4 turntables and 9+ controllers, I'm pretty all over the place.

    Quote Originally Posted by balakoth View Post
    if you have to spend time alt tabbing windows, trying to get visual feedback,
    I really don't. Between the records and all of the controllers, I've got a lot of visual feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by balakoth View Post
    that puts you at risk of screen glare, and because of this 15 to 17 inch screen you will be constantly looking at it if you use ableton for anything other than a wet/dry send effects box.
    Definitely not. That's what 6+ of my controllers are for.

    Quote Originally Posted by balakoth View Post
    C) I run 4 tracks of samples, Massives, FM8 and Maschine off of my Ableton Laptop. On the other is 4 traktor decks, both laptops run their interfaces at 96 samples. With a few instances of massive, an FM8 playing samples and also using the machine as a external fx send, the CPU can have constant activity (be it 15 to 30 percent).
    This is your Asus? If I open all that stuff, I only get to 2-4%.

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    Quote Originally Posted by botstein View Post
    This is your Asus? If I open all that stuff, I only get to 2-4%.
    Try actually using those vsts you just loaded then... If you say you run 2 massives 2 fm8s FX Chains and Machine at 4 percent.. Youd just be lying. Or highly over exaggerating. Or they sit there idle.. whichever.. whatever.. Who cares.



    Dan, your Denon is a sound interface, so its midi out should work fine with a midi patch cable going to your second laptops audio interface/midi interface. You will just need a midi interface for your second laptop (Or a sound interface with midi since you will need an audio card for the second mac anyways. Below is just a quick snap of what I use when I play out.. They are simply synced together using the audio interfaces midi in and out and using the method I had described above.

    Maybe Im missing the exact problem?


    337687_10200526417628887_702181438_o.jpg

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by balakoth View Post
    Dan, your Denon is a sound interface, so its midi out should work fine with a midi patch cable going to your second laptops audio interface/midi interface. You will just need a midi interface for your second laptop (Or a sound interface with midi since you will need an audio card for the second mac anyways. Below is just a quick snap of what I use when I play out.. They are simply synced together using the audio interfaces midi in and out and using the method I had described above.

    Maybe Im missing the exact problem?


    337687_10200526417628887_702181438_o.jpg
    The problem is that I don't have a clue what I'm doing... I know how to mix records together and that's about where my knowledge ends!!! LOL

    OK, so if I use a Midi cable to go from the Denon to a USB Midi interface then operate the interface through my laptop it should get the signal and sync up, is that right???

    The Mac just runs Traktor using the Denons on-board sound card, so I think that I can just leave that alone.

    The next step is where to route the audio from the laptop with Ableton, would it be wise to get a little USB mixing desk and put the decks through one channel and the laptop with Ableton through the other???

    Thanks for your help so far by the way!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdanhack View Post
    The problem is that I don't have a clue what I'm doing... I know how to mix records together and that's about where my knowledge ends!!! LOL

    OK, so if I use a Midi cable to go from the Denon to a USB Midi interface then operate the interface through my laptop it should get the signal and sync up, is that right???

    The Mac just runs Traktor using the Denons on-board sound card, so I think that I can just leave that alone.

    The next step is where to route the audio from the laptop with Ableton, would it be wise to get a little USB mixing desk and put the decks through one channel and the laptop with Ableton through the other???

    Thanks for your help so far by the way!!!
    Essentially yes. MIDI Cable from the Denon to your Second Laptops Midi Interface/Soundcard once you turn on the necessary settings Traktor should send a midi signal out, Ableton will receive if as long as you have sync on that device on.. and then its up to you to figure out adjusting the delay so the two "Clicks" from each program line up.

    THIS is of course all if you want to use TWO Laptops to do this operation. The second Laptop is going to need to have its own external sound card (probably preferably one with midi)


    But if you are just starting to mix and get the hang of how you want to do things, don't have the extra sound card, extra laptop or the funds right now at your disposal, running Ableton and Traktor on one machine is a different process.


    As far as Traktor is concerned, because your denon is USB and a sound interface, you should be able to just use Traktor preferences to have Decks A and B round to one of the four channels on the Denon.

    Then Ableton again its down to preference. You can have multiple tracks that just go back to one channel on your mixer, or you can split tracks up to go to two channels (two more decks for example as tracks in ableton).

    Some form of USB controller for all of this would be ideal, but controllers are personal preference.

    Past the syncing of the software, or laptops, what devices to control ableton and traktor is entirely up to you

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