TPro Master Limiter Jumps the Gun
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  1. #1
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    Default TPro Master Limiter Jumping the Gun?

    (EDIT - I am having trouble reproducing this behavior reliably, so personal experiences with this topic are appreciated. Just tested extensively in Live 5 and 8, with lots of different tracks, and I can't get the waveform to look how it did in the set that drew my attention to this topic)

    Something I've noticed while recording live sets in another program, is that Traktor can shave peaks when the limiter is on, EVEN BEFORE you tap the red on screen! Everyone knows TPro's channel meters are next to useless, but this is especially a bummer because it means the master level is also inaccurate. I noticed this inadvertently while recording TPro's output into Live.

    Here's the set-up: load a track in TPro, set the eqs and gain at zero, no fx. Set the channel fader at 70%. Pick an average track, not too loud, not too quiet. Be certain this track does not have clipped waveforms already. Set the master output such that you never go red at any part of the track. At this point you should have relaxed levels with plenty of headroom. Turn on TPro's master limiter. Now, route the audio from Traktor into a different program that can record (virtual routing, not with cables), and make sure that program is not boosting the input level in any way. Do not eq, add fx, or do anything to the incoming signal at all. Hit record. Go back to TPro, and raise the Master Level slowly until you are almost going to hit red, but DO NOT actually let it go red. Just take it as far as you can without clipping. Technically, the limiter should not have engaged yet. Go back to your recording program, hit stop, and look closely at the loud peaks in the waveform. You may notice the peaks have been shaved, even without having gone into the red. If you back off on the master, and record again, your waveform looks fine. What this means is, the TPro limiter is kicking in at some arbitrary point, but actually before it redlines visually.

    But I really want to get some confirmation too. Simply turning off the limiter is a solid workaround, but what about those of us that don't abuse it, rarely dip into the red but just want that bit of extra protection? It blows if we have no indication of where it actually kicks in.
    Last edited by Zac Kyoti; 08-28-2009 at 12:55 AM. Reason: More testing
    MacBook 2.4GHz, 6GB, Traktor Pro, Ableton Live, Bomes MT, Audio Kontrol 1, Vestax VCI-100 SE Custom, M-Audio Axiom 25, Akai APC40, NI Maschine, 2x Midi Fighters (c/o DJ TechTools - Thanks!!)

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  2. #2

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    need a hack that puts a "yellow" zone in the meters :P

    that's what i feel we need to call this area adjacent to the red zone.
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  3. #3
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    Hell Yeah! +1
    Better yet, do the same on the channel meters, and somebody from NI please tell me if it's even possible to clip the channel volumes with the volume fader in combination with the gains alone (internal). In my experience, fader at 128 and autogain on (if autogain got it right) means zero boost to the signal. This would mean if you boost the gain up from this point, the signal could potentially be clipped with no indication on either the channel or the master.
    MacBook 2.4GHz, 6GB, Traktor Pro, Ableton Live, Bomes MT, Audio Kontrol 1, Vestax VCI-100 SE Custom, M-Audio Axiom 25, Akai APC40, NI Maschine, 2x Midi Fighters (c/o DJ TechTools - Thanks!!)

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  4. #4
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    I post in this forum the same problem with the limiter, maybe you want to set the master gain -2db with autogain, i think that it will not clip.
    This is not a solution, we need to inform NI

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