eks "otus"...

[djcl.ear]

Piglet,

Nice to talk this subject with some knowledge.
Lets talk about best quality analogue. Do you remember Allen & Heat's audiophile V6 DJ mixer? Well it has superb good specs and sound, but done at the price of virtually no features, just 2 pots per channel, nothing else. The reason is that each switch, pot, filter, connector, cable, e-v-e-r-y-l-i-t-t-l-e-thingy inside, accumulatively smears the sound and adds distortion. Analogue hifi is achieved either the minimal way with just a few components made of gold ooor with an art of ear-selection of those required components that sound sweet and nice, and that also permits the gear to perform the task required.

Digital, on the contrary, can be transported and mixed as many times as you like without degradation. The processes (DSP) like EQ, effects, etc can be done with good quality...or not. As you mention there is a big difference between badly implemented digital and good one.
Fortunately each year, dig gets better and better.
Initially digital was very arrogant and took decades for the techs to acknowledge the problems and to finally address them. Now we know that the final stage, the DACs (when dig is transformed to analogue), has been the main culprit. Every studio or quality sound system uses dedicated DACs costing thousands of dollars, but at 2009 middle ones are not expensive and very good sounding.
That was about distortion.

In terms of signal to noise ratio, which means the amount of noise each piece of gear adds. Just see the phono S/N specs everywhere, those go from 72 to 85 dB max, whereas in good digital equipment, it stays above 100 dB. This dB number is the audio level from which the noise starts to be audible. In simple words; If a party runs around 120 dB, analoge gear will have 40 to 50 dB of noise coming together with the music whilst digital only 20 dB...

Distortion and noise are not the whole picture. Many musicians, Djs dont want accuracy in their equipment, they want euphony (call it musicality) and so add this and that in the amplification to obtain it or to filter out problems done at the recording, mastering or cause of bad quality files... I'd rather get musical sound at the actual music making level and get transparency on the DJ rig and sound system if possible.
Off-topic yes, but too scarcely known

[djcl.ear]

Hahaha
All that bla bla and didn't get to answer your question ¡
(@ some blog, just ask me to cut short my dissertations haha)

It was my understanding that you have the analogue mixer that outputs a line level signal to the amplifier (which may contain EQ and limiter). Are you suggesting that the mixer outputs digital to the amplifiers?

Answer is no, course.
There are some DACs integrated with the amplification process, but those are costly affairs, for audiophile digital fans (on the rise).
However they follow the same idea... Convert just once and do it the latest as possible. Engrave that phrase in titanium, right nxt to the one that says that the best analogue is Zen (meaning the minimum components and obstruction). Use them as a guide and your sound will only get better.

Thus, the idea is that the Digital mixer outputs a digital signal to the all-in-one digital unit (Xover, room-EQ, Limiter, Delay and DACs) that then feeds the power amplifiers.
At the end your sound chain goes: Laptop-Otus(as decks)-Dig DJ mixer-Dig Xover/EQ/DACs-Amps-Speakers With blue being the Digital part and red the analogue.

By your question I see you are thinking in just a couple of active speakers or in a DJ system with a small amp after the mixer... Most venues need active crossover for multiamped speakers. Why? Consider this: ALL system need to use a crossover, even the smallish (active or not) DJ speaker needs a crossover, because highs and lows behave differently and thus can't receive the same signal. Low drivers need POOWER and tweeters need just a tiny power to drive them.
The unavoidable xover goes either outside in the rack (and is called active) or inside the speaker baffle. The latter xover is very inefficient 'cause receives the full amplifier push and then divides that amplified signal into lows and highs, loosing a lot of heat. If the signal is separated in the rack before the amp, it has minor power loss. That is why good systems amplify the treble, middle and Subs with separated powers after the xover does its trick.

[Stumpy]

oh dear really? Well the problem is with the Otus Raw is that its much more difficult to use in 2 deck mode because the physical slider can only be set for one deck at one time....

Except that the Raw seems to have two physical sliders, at least the version shown at NAMM.

[tekki]

Yeah, can't wait for that one to turn up!

[PIGLET]

Except that the Raw seems to have two physical sliders, at least the version shown at NAMM.

aha sweet! Despite my usual feelings on these matters I actually might want the Raw to contain a soundcard...Its like I think I want a cross between the regular and Raw OTUS...

It just looks so conventient dumping the Otus on a 1210 and pluging into the mixer and the laptop...

[PIGLET]

Hahaha
All that bla bla and didn't get to answer your question ¡
(@ some blog, just ask me to cut short my dissertations haha)

We've gone quote off topic but interesting to get more info on the system side of things - thanks. Im still not entirely clear on the advantages of having the DAC in the mixer as opposed to the soundcard given a roughly equal level of DAC, and the relevance of the xover to this - but I wasnt aware of such nice looking high spec mixers such as that Allen & Heath...Are you basically saying you think its better to have the highest quality D/A at the last point in the chain (before power amp)?.......And by postponing this conversion that it has some sort of benefit to the xover stage in amplification...?

One thing a producer astutely pointed out was that with digital there is constantly room for growth and improvement in execution and technology - whereas with analogue it is much more limited. So as you say we can expect digital to get better and better. Its true that my RME Fireface is considered mid-range now as a set of converters whereas 10 years ago they would have killed for it in a pro studio...
I have to be honest and say that last year we had a residency at a club that used the Pioneer DJM1000. I saw it had a SPDIF input but opted to use my Fireface to output analogue as the snob in me assumed that a pro studio product would have better conversion than a DJ product! However I just (at this late stage|!) did my homework on the DJM1000 and saw that its entirely digital! So I ended up subjecting my beloved audio to another round of conversion!! Well Im very surprised that that whole DJM1000 is digital...I had just assumed that the digital stage would just be a low-range affair - more of an afterthought on the otherwise analogue mixer! I think the DJM1000 operates internally at 24bit 96k which is quite nice.
Perhaps I need to smell the coffee of change in the DJ tech market...I guess at the top level the digital implementation of these DJ products is going to be pretty good....

[djcl.ear]

Are you basically saying you think its better to have the highest quality D/A at the last point in the chain (before power amp)?.......And by postponing this conversion it has some sort of benefit to the xover stage in amplification...?

Yes, this way you take out the "rack attack" out of the system (no more layers of gear; room EQs, Compressors, delays, Xovers, etc) Systems installers know this, so sooner than later you'll connet your DJ gear to this.
Digital Djs have the additional advantage to get up there -just before the power amps- without a single DAC conversion.

Well Im very surprised that that whole DJM1000 is digital... (.)I think the DJM1000 operates internally at 24bit 96k which is quite nice.
Perhaps I need to smell the coffee of change in the DJ tech market...I guess at the top level the digital implementation of these DJ products is going to be pretty good....

Yes, musicians had the chance to record the masters in 24 bits, 88 or 96 Khz ten years now. Sound systems and DJ gear is finally getting over 105 dB (sometimes 115 dB) of signal over noise ratio and distorsion numbers already go below 0,000xxx thanks to digital.

Nowadays musicians playing live plug their lappies with their own soundcard and good DACs (RME is a very good brand actually) and it sounds much better than regular CDs, vinyl or files on the dancefloor. This is today.

Tomorrow? First Djs and audiophiles, then consumers in general will have to switch their music files to a higher level... 'cause homes, clubs and parties' sound systems will begin to SHOW a big difference.
Many Djs will have to buy their music all over again... guess who'll benefit from this.
Smallish speakers like in headphones, PCs and common cars wont change that much... because being small they couldn't -ever actually- handle the whole freq range of CDs and therefore benefited big from MP3.
But DJs??? we dont need to wait for tomorrow to be there, just do the switch and get a listen from most good sounding dancefloors.

So high quality, hi def controllers like Otus are going to be needed
Just my take threading these loose ends.

[j1n]

any news on the Otus Raw and if it will ever be released??

[Archies'bald]

Has anyone had any problems setting up the EKS Otus? I have bought a second hand one and I am only getting the left channel coming from one of the audio outputs. The other channel is working fine.

I've tried just about all I can think and I'm beginning to think the unit may be faulty. I'm using Traktor 3 with it and I've been through the EKS site, followed all the instructions, but alas I can't get an output from the right hand speaker on the second deck output. Grrr.

[PartyMcFly]

i just picked one of these up... pretty much the best decision i've made. ever.

it takes takes a lot of getting used to coming from a two deck controller; it literally gave me a headache after the first go 'round with it. but after i shifted my workflow and finally caught up to the machine, it's become the most fun and resourceful piece of equipment i've ever used. i think in another week i'll be comfortable enough to play it at the club.

has anyone else using one of these been able to wrap their head around mapping it, particularly the LED feedback? it hasn't been difficult, but it hasn't really been easy either. i'm curious about how some other people have altered the factory mapping. i'm really big on loop triggering, moving, sizing, and visual LED feedback of such things, so pretty much all of my alterations were in these areas.

i don't think i can emphasize enough how happy i am with the otus. i really hope more companies have the charlies to step up to the plate against this thing. after using one for instant doubles, i can tell someone could be very dangerous with two of them.