Traktor Dropping ALAC support - Page 3
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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by sheikyerbouti View Post
    Now stop flooding the whole internet with your problem.
    I disagree with this statement. It's not necessarily ImNoDJ's problem, it's a problem that potentially affects a lot of people.

  2. #22
    Tech Guru mostapha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImNoDJ View Post
    How would you feel If i wiped all your digital dj history of the last two years?
    Uhh.....I tend to do that periodically to clear out cruft anyway. I get it if you're a mobile DJ and think you need a huge, searchable library. But even then, I'm pretty sure all but one of the mobile guys I've ever seen could have palyed off of the same 200 record collection.

    But, I'm also not one of those guys who meticulously sets loop and mix points. If the beatgrid is good, it's good. And 2.7.1 seems to actually get it right more often than not. So the whole "do I want to set a beat grid again" becomes a very easy litmus test for "is it time to get rid of this song?".

    If the library I actually used for DJing was big enough to complain about, I'd be thankful for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ImNoDJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mostapha
    Basically.....this happens with QuickTime. Why trust it in the first place?
    Thats just silly. Its nothing to do with QT. Its to do with NI dropping a major file type with zero notice. Every other ALAC compatible app on Windows still works perfectly. The ALAC decoder is open source.
    Quote Originally Posted by NI kb that you posted
    Due to changes in both the operating system and Apple's QuickTime, we had to remove QuickTime from TRAKTOR. Instead, we are now using Windows Media Foundation for playback support, which does not include the Apple Lossless codec.
    This happens with quicktime periodically.

    My honest suggestion.....figure out the <100 songs you actually play, convert therm to aiff and prep them, and leave the rest alone. Either NI or Apple will fix it or you'll buy a bigger drive this weekend.

  3. #23
    Tech Guru space monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostapha View Post
    Uhh.....I tend to do that periodically to clear out cruft anyway. I get it if you're a mobile DJ and think you need a huge, searchable library. But even then, I'm pretty sure all but one of the mobile guys I've ever seen could have palyed off of the same 200 record collection.
    ...
    My honest suggestion.....figure out the <100 songs you actually play, convert therm to aiff and prep them, and leave the rest alone. Either NI or Apple will fix it or you'll buy a bigger drive this weekend.
    I was going to post something similar. After switching my gear to CDJs I found out that I could no long use FLAC and ended up culling about 70% of my collection and was all the happier for it. When practicing, if a track comes to mind that I haven't converted to AIF yet I make a note...otherwise meh.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheikyerbouti View Post
    Well I don't know which app you are talking about, but I would assume that its simply a playback app and not a complex DJ software?! I mean... if it was that simple, why would they drop the support in the first place? Just to piss of users? Because they don't like windows? They will address the problem with suitable ressources.
    Seriously, you've got no idea what you're talking about in the technical sense when it comes to playback codecs. I don't believe they did this on purpose of course. I think this is a management decision that overruled the developers. I've seen this many, many times.

    NI have a long history of never admitting a fuck up. They will not even tell you what the current issues with 271 are. They make every user find out for themselves.

    Their management has completely stopped the developers from engaging with the customers in the On the Record forum. The maschine on the record hasn't been updated in a year, the traktor on the record hasn't been updated in 2 years.

    I know how the business of development works, this is not how you drop support for a feature. You are defending NI for releasing broken software. This isn't a small impact.

    NI rushed 2.7 out the door because of the Amazon s8 leak. 2.6.8 is mature and stable. 2.7.1 has 6 Google pages of show stopping bugs for certain users.

    NI can only get away with this as their user base is so small and niche. I'm a niche user in a niche user base.

    24 bit ALAC support was requested since 2011. NI said it was 'coming'. They announced it with fanfare in the 2.7 patch notes, people on the forum were happy. Until they tried to load a file and found an error message.

    We were then told over the last 4 weeks they were working on it. Then they just announce they are dropping it. No explanation of why they announced a broken feature, and why their testing seemed to miss something so major.



    Imagine NI dropped support for MP3 with no warning. Imagine how disruptive that might be to your gigging.

    Even though you're a bit thick, I've appreciated you bumping my post all over the Internet.
    Last edited by ImNoDJ; 11-27-2014 at 03:01 PM.

  5. #25
    Tech Guru mostapha's Avatar
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    NI dropping mp3 support would be a good thing.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karlos Santos View Post
    I have to say that this thread title is slightly misleading.

    As is evident in the KB article, NI didn't drop support for ALAC, rather that Apple is forcing them down this road by deprecating support for Quicktime - big big difference. NI are trying to put ALAC support back in themselves with no help from Apple.

    I am not saying that it has been handled particularly well by NI nor that the anger is misplaced but this is clearly something that is being forced on NI and not NI forcing it on the users.

    I can't speak for Rekordbox as I rarely use it and I don't use ALAC but maybe Pioneer are suffering the same issue with Apple that NI are.

    For the record I have been speaking privately with ImNoDJ on this matter for some weeks so I'm not just wading in trying to blindly defend NI. I have been in constant contact with NI support on this matter due to it's affect on some of the NI forum members.

    Karlos
    I want to take pains to explain that I have no issue with NI support, or development.

    This whole saga points to something very broken in management.

    Karlos, I don't accept that this was a surprise foisted on NI.

    You are suggesting that Apple and MS forced NI to release broken software. That dog doesn't hunt. Apple and MS did not write the 2.7 patch notes which specified 24 bit ALAC support, NI did. Can you provide any possible scenario where this was missed in beta testing?

    I can guarantee you that not one single beta tester was using ALAC on windows with 2.7, otherwise this would have been caught. They rushed this out.

    Why did they announce a broken feature that was never going to work?

    I've dealt with both Apple and Ms, they do not deprecate overnight. They have road maps. As far as I understand it, there is literally nothing stopping NI from forking the open source ALAC decoder.

    A better company would have let their users know that ALAC was becoming deprecated, and given them months to adjust their libraries.a good company will pay a developer to make a couple of tools that would ease this transition, and transfer traktor information between file types.

    This isn't about the technology, it's about the indifference of the impact on the users. I've been in the business of IT long enough to smell bullshit, and it's all over this.
    Last edited by ImNoDJ; 11-27-2014 at 03:25 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostapha View Post
    NI dropping mp3 support would be a good thing.
    Well that got a lol outta me

  8. #28
    Tech Guru mostapha's Avatar
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    Maybe it's time to switch software if you're this pissed.

    I've switched for being mad at things lime that. Hell, I think I ditched windows for something like that. And, I'm about to start evaluating freebsd as opposed to Linux for daily use because I don't like redhat's roadmap.

    These things happen. They suck, but they happen.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostapha View Post
    Maybe it's time to switch software if you're this pissed.

    I've switched for being mad at things lime that. Hell, I think I ditched windows for something like that. And, I'm about to start evaluating freebsd as opposed to Linux for daily use because I don't like redhat's roadmap.

    These things happen. They suck, but they happen.
    I do appreciate the advice, but I will point out that Ive worked in IT my whole life. 20 years as an enterprise PC tech, the last few years as a business manager. Im not just ranting without understanding how the business of development works.

    I also dont need any technical advice with how to deal with it, nor any judgements about how much my time is worth to rebuild my library.

    This is all beside the point. My DJ library only has 1000 songs. But they are playlists honed over years to be perfect for particular moods. I dont need to revisit them, I just know they are there when I need them. Now they arent.

    If I do a html dump from Traktor now, and then print out and rebuild them manually, this is going to take at least 10-20 hours.

    I could probably spend the time to build a script to do it, but why am i spending time to fix something NI broke without notice?

    And what will they do next?



    I know the sound of ass covering, and Its coming loud from NI.

    I dont want to switch, I really like Traktor. I want NI to treat their users with respect and actually communicate to them about their direction.

    Removing a feature with no notice is unacceptable in IT.

    Blaming someone else for forcing you for releasing broken software is a dick move.

    Part of my job is to assess Change impact on users. We work out what changes will affect which users, and help them plan for and to get through it.

    NI either dont have this, or they do and they dont care. This is what is rotten in NI currently. They know they can get away with it.

    Let me remind you that 24-bit ALAC support was requested on the forums since 2011. A year or two later, NI said they were looking at. Another year or two later they release 2.7 with 24-bit support in the patch notes.

    Except it wasnt, and it was broken on release. This is evidence of a very weird development/roadmap process.

  10. #30
    Tech Guru space monkey's Avatar
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    Your comments are valid and I can empathize.
    When I changed from FLAC to AIF I was in a similar situation except my decision was more or less voluntary. When I started replacing my FLAC encoded tracks I simply re-encoded into AIF and deleted my old track. Traktor would notify me of the missing track(s) and I would point it to the correct folder et viola, the tracks would re-import with stripes/tags/grid/cues. Maybe this would work the same for you? Would save you a lot of time and perhaps worth looking into.

    I should note that going from mp3 to FLAC years ago was a nightmare because the grid would offset using the aforementioned method.

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