Simple HP/LP Filtering in Traktor
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  1. #1

    Default Simple HP/LP Filtering in Traktor

    I would like to have four simple filters in my Traktor setup: one HP and one LP filter for each track.

    The closest thing I've been able to achieve in Traktor is to have two sets of Xone:92 filters per track, set to "single" mode to allow control of the LP and HP cutoffs individually. This is almost exactly what I want - I can filter how I want, control the resonance how I want, and enable/disable all four filters independently from each other.

    The only problem is that when I enable my HP filter in deck A for example, it also enables an LP filter. When the resonance setting is high, the amplified bass thump is very noticeable.

    So I would like to see if anyone knows a way to enable simple, independent HP and LP filters in Traktor.

    (I have also tried using the "single knob" HP/LP filter. Sadly, this doesn't work with a controller, because Traktor mappings can't use 'range' like Ableton's can. I want to control each filter with a separate knob or fader on my xone:K2.)

    Cheers.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanz the joiner View Post
    I would like to have four simple filters in my Traktor setup: one HP and one LP filter for each track.

    The closest thing I've been able to achieve in Traktor is to have two sets of Xone:92 filters per track, set to "single" mode to allow control of the LP and HP cutoffs individually. This is almost exactly what I want - I can filter how I want, control the resonance how I want, and enable/disable all four filters independently from each other.

    The only problem is that when I enable my HP filter in deck A for example, it also enables an LP filter. When the resonance setting is high, the amplified bass thump is very noticeable.

    So I would like to see if anyone knows a way to enable simple, independent HP and LP filters in Traktor.

    (I have also tried using the "single knob" HP/LP filter. Sadly, this doesn't work with a controller, because Traktor mappings can't use 'range' like Ableton's can. I want to control each filter with a separate knob or fader on my xone:K2.)

    Cheers.
    Simply put...no this can't be done, at least not with only a K2. The reason that the bass becomes boomy with the high resonance is well...that's how it sounds on a Xone:62 or 92...it's something you get used to pretty quickly, I am frequently adjusting my resonance on my Xone:62 while sweeping the filters. It's also one of those things that you hear pretty clearly while mixing, but to a listener, or when you listen to a recording of the set later on you don't really notice it as much.

    EDIT: Possibly map the deck filters as well? Seems like overkill to me...I only occasionally need more filtration than the two vcfs on my :62, and when I do I just load up the 92 effect on one of my X1s.

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    Tech Guru SlayForMoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanz the joiner View Post
    The closest thing I've been able to achieve in Traktor is to have two sets of Xone:92 filters per track, set to "single" mode to allow control of the LP and HP cutoffs individually. This is almost exactly what I want - I can filter how I want, control the resonance how I want, and enable/disable all four filters independently from each other.
    This is also how i do it: xone:92 filters in single mode, first knob (wet/dry) to 100%, second (LP) to 0%, third (resonance) between 60-70%, fourth (HP) to 100%.
    That way, when you engage a FX on/off (first knob) there should be no change in sound until you roll either HL or LP knobs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanz the joiner View Post
    (I have also tried using the "single knob" HP/LP filter. Sadly, this doesn't work with a controller, because Traktor mappings can't use 'range' like Ableton's can. I want to control each filter with a separate knob or fader on my xone:K2.)
    You can!! You have to create 2 command for a single filter.... The first hp is normal, the second, lp, you have to check that "invert" is selected... Do the hp first.. From 12 o'clock to about 5... You have to select fader/knobs ----> Relative ---> and than try to adjust the second value... Not the "progress sensivity" .... Once you have found the right % value (it could be around 65%).... Duplicate the command and select invert... So now, the filter should go counterclockwise from 0% (12 o'clock) to -100%

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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlayForMoney View Post
    That way, when you engage a FX on/off (first knob) there should be no change in sound until you roll either HL or LP knobs.
    Yeah, I find that there *is* a change in sound even with the HP knob at its deepest position, or with the LP knob at its highest position. At low resonance settings, I found the top end to lose a bit of fizz from the LP filter, and with high resonance, I found the low end to gain an unwanted thump from the HP filter.

    I did try to explain this in my first post in this topic, but I think I worded it badly. I do that a lot. So the problem is that if I want to do some lowpass sweeping, to take out some top-end, for example, I engage the lowpass filter. But this *always* engages the hipass filter at the same time, due to the doubled nature of Traktors xone filters in "single" mode. And even at its deepest setting, the hipass filter still alters the sound. Or vice versa, if I want to take out some bass on a low resonance setting, I will inadvertently muffle the top end a little bit too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pippo91 View Post
    You can!! You have to create 2 command for a single filter.... The first hp is normal, the second, lp, you have to check that "invert" is selected... Do the hp first.. From 12 o'clock to about 5... You have to select fader/knobs ----> Relative ---> and than try to adjust the second value... Not the "progress sensivity" .... Once you have found the right % value (it could be around 65%).... Duplicate the command and select invert... So now, the filter should go counterclockwise from 0% (12 o'clock) to -100%
    You nailed it. I now have exactly what I was trying to achieve I'm kinda proud of this configuration - I think it's good and intuitive and has ergonomic value.

    So here is the filter setup of my dreams, explained in my terrible wording, for one deck:
    The left fader is the HP filter, and the LP is on the right. With both filters fully "open", leaving a clean signal to pass, the left fader is fully down, and the right fader is fully up. As I move the faders closer to each other, it creates a bandpass in effect, the closer the fader-caps are to each other, the narrower the band.

    The buttons above the fader active and deactivate the individual filter. Each fader has its own resonance control.



    On Traktor, this is achieved by having two "single" mode xone filters for each deck, with the DJM button engaged. This gives me the ability to enable/disable each filter individually, as well as controlling the resonance for each filter.



    I had to do some funky programming in the controller manager to get it to work the way I want.
    (HP filter moves from middle - bypass - to 100 by moving fader from bottom to top. LP filter moves from middle - bypassing - to 0 by moving fader from top to bottom)
    I don't understand why this configuration works, but it does. The LP is set as a rotary, in direct mode with 75% rotary sensitivity, and the HP is a fader/knob in relative mode with 70% rotary sensitivity.

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    Tech Guru SlayForMoney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanz the joiner View Post
    Yeah, I find that there *is* a change in sound even with the HP knob at its deepest position, or with the LP knob at its highest position. At low resonance settings, I found the top end to lose a bit of fizz from the LP filter, and with high resonance, I found the low end to gain an unwanted thump from the HP filter.
    As I said, I use 66% resonance and I hear no change in sound, either monitoring through headphones or speakers. But, i'm using Traktor Pro 1.2.7. it might be a problem with TP2 FX engine.
    You wanted to have FX units engaged at all times at 100% wet and still have no change in sound, right? How does this mapping solve that?
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by SlayForMoney View Post
    As I said, I use 66% resonance and I hear no change in sound, either monitoring through headphones or speakers.
    Ah yes. Sorry, I didn't respond to that point. This method of setting the resonance would probably work well enough to fool my ears, but the problem is that I want to be able to modulate the resonance to create different effects, on one individual cutoff, without affecting that of any others. I will use the idea though; I intend to set my "default" to that level so that my filters will reset to their most transparent settings.

    Quote Originally Posted by SlayForMoney View Post
    You wanted to have FX units engaged at all times at 100% wet and still have no change in sound, right? How does this mapping solve that?
    Good question, I hadn't really thought about it. I had just assumed it would work. But you're right - exactly what I've described above could also apply to the DJM filter setup.

    ...

    So I did some rudimentary A/B comparing. You should try as well, to see if you agree. (If you're that interested, hehe.) I believe the DJM filter set at 50 is *not* the same as having both LP and HP cutoffs set to their most open positions.



    I wasn't able to notice a difference when engaging and disengaging the DJM filter, regardless of the resonance setting.

    I am not sure how this solves the problem, but it seems to me that it does.
    Last edited by Lanz the joiner; 04-29-2015 at 12:45 PM.

  8. #8
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    Just wanted to add that the high-pass on its own, with any elevated resonance setting (in traktor, seems to be above 50%, but on a Xone:92 or 62 will be after about 30-40%) and NO low-pass will still amplify bass. This is exactly how it works on an analog VCF. The A&H mixers don't engage both filters at once since each circuit can only be set to one type, or one combination at once...I would be very wary of the distortion incurred from layering so much individual filter resonance in an internal mixing situation.

    You may actually have better luck using the normal Filter effect in traktor, since it still offers the individual LP/HP/BR combination with resonance, but lacks the "simulated analog" sound of the Filter:92. I've found when I'm not on an A&H, and using the :92 filter in traktor, the sound is really still quite different from the real deal. It's a decent approximation, but it's definitely not a substitute or equivalent.

    It's an interesting setup you're working with here though...are you using 2 or 4 decks? I can see with 4 decks this could be a great way to carve tracks apart, without resorting to the EQ as much.

  9. #9

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    I would much rather use four A&H analog VCF filters than Traktor simulations. But such a setup doesn't exist as far as I know. I could possibly get by using the two filters offered on the Xone:92, but to me the sonic upgrade isn't worth the functional limitation. Filters are so integral to my mixing style... I don't want to have to "select" which channel I want them to apply to. Imagine having to do that with your EQ knobs! It would slow you down, right? You want to be able to grab and tweak, rather than having to think about which EQ knob is assigned to which track, right? So that's why I have two cutoff faders per deck. I'm hoping for this to work as a substitute for real analog filters.

    I'm just using two decks at the moment, though I do tend to go for long blends. I particularly like it for taking away sub bass while leaving the meat of the bass and synths in the mix - something I can rarely accomplish using a set of three EQ knobs.

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