How much live is performing live

[zestoi]

Well what you are also having to contend with is the old chestnut that your not a real DJ unless you can beatmatch

lol true... i always stay clear of those arguments. maybe im lucky coming from a background of beat matching on vinyl and moved onto midi+sync. im planning on buying some decks+mixer tho for going old school as well sometimes...

i guess a really well rounded dj should probably be able to beat match, use cdj's and be proficient with software and controllers - but its all down to personal preference and whether someone wants to be able to turn up at any venue and play. theyre all useful skills anyway and basically just fun

[ImNoDJ]

im not sure about this... what i do these days combining loops/maschine/sequences+full tracks using sync/quantize is *closer* to a live performance than i used to be back in the day spinning vinyl just mixing 2 tracks - so dont think the use of sync/quantize has much to do with it. its still not performing live but has some elements of it in...

To me 'live' implies risk. That if your concentration drops and you get careless, then your mistakes are audible.

If you are letting a sequencer take charge of the timing of your key presses, then nothing can go wrong and theres no risk. And I argue there is much less dramatic tension which is why so many DJs now seem to stare at their laptop with a bored expression.

[Jester]

live enough for you



hah that video makes me wanna setup a psy band

Boom!

[Morior]

To me 'live' implies risk. That if your concentration drops and you get careless, then your mistakes are audible.

If you are letting a sequencer take charge of the timing of your key presses, then nothing can go wrong and theres no risk. And I argue there is much less dramatic tension which is why so many DJs now seem to stare at their laptop with a bored expression.

Well then you don't understand the technology and are one of these people who years ago would deride electronic music by saying 'sure you just press a button and the machine writes the song for you.' There is some truth regarding screen gazers but let's not decrie an entire genre because some don't do it very well.

There is a hell of a lot that can go wrong, all sync does is enable you to be able to drop in loops etc without having to undergo the rather boring and in context time consuming task of beat matching. Try having 2 tracks playing at once and your preparing to add another 2 while doing a filter and reverb buildup on the playing tracks, and throw in you planning to cut the bass on one of the playing tracks so that the bass on a new track will replace it. Yeah I suppose because I'm using sync nothing can go wrong! In fact the machine does it all for me.

The problem here is that the 'no-sync' merchants don't have the imagination or creativity or balls to use the technology to create truly original sets and are happy to plod along 'seamlessly' ( and I use the term lightly) going from one track to another and then fiddle with a knob or two until the next track is due.

As an amateur I have only posted a handful of mixes, the main reason is that there are always mistakes that I hear, a place where I did not get the bass in on time or I killed the wrong track out of four. Maybe I'm useless but I'm not willing to sit on my ass and go A-B. The handful of live gigs I did were truly terrifying and I was sorely tempted to return to the safety of the phase matcher and go A-B for the night.

[ImNoDJ]

Well then you don't understand the technology and are one of these people who years ago would deride electronic music by saying 'sure you just press a button and the machine writes the song for you.' There is some truth regarding screen gazers but let's not decrie an entire genre because some don't do it very well.

If you think this is what im saying, then you dont know how to read.

There is a hell of a lot that can go wrong, all sync does is enable you to be able to drop in loops etc without having to undergo the rather boring and in context time consuming task of beat matching.

Theres nothing that can go wrong the audience will notice in that setup. This isnt so much about sync as it is about snap and quantise for button presses and loops. If you cant hit a button in time with a kick drum, and you need a sequencer to time your presses, then there is nothing 'LIVE' about that performance IMO.

Try having 2 tracks playing at once and your preparing to add another 2 while doing a filter and reverb buildup on the playing tracks, and throw in you planning to cut the bass on one of the playing tracks so that the bass on a new track will replace it. Yeah I suppose because I'm using sync nothing can go wrong! In fact the machine does it all for me.

Is that supposed to be impressive? This is absolute basic standard Djing. You dont have any timing to worry about (which is %95 of musical performance), and you are swapping basslines. Jeff Mills does all this with four decks of vinyl, plus live drum machines and Im pretty sure youre not at his level.

The problem here is that the 'no-sync' merchants don't have the imagination or creativity or balls to use the technology to create truly original sets and are happy to plod along 'seamlessly' ( and I use the term lightly) going from one track to another and then fiddle with a knob or two until the next track is due.

Im still yet to see any evidence of this whatsoever. In my experience those who use sync, snap and quantise are more likely to be lazy with their song selection and their general mixing, and just spam effects. DJs are playing fully recorded productions. If you want people to be impressed with your musicality, then do LivePA instead of pretending that running four quantised loops is somehow difficult.

As an amateur I have only posted a handful of mixes, the main reason is that there are always mistakes that I hear, a place where I did not get the bass in on time or I killed the wrong track out of four. Maybe I'm useless but I'm not willing to sit on my ass and go A-B. The handful of live gigs I did were truly terrifying and I was sorely tempted to return to the safety of the phase matcher and go A-B for the night.

Finally we get to the point where you admit that you dont have faith in your basic DJ skills live, so you need the aids in order to perform. I personally have nothing against using the aids as long as the music is excellent. But in my experience, low effort DJing and bad music always appear to go hand in hand.

[jimmyv]

I love when I see promotional flyers that say "Live DJ" or "DJ X Performing Live"

[Morior]

Imnodj you must give me the names of some of these DJ's who are able to harmonic mix up to 4 tracks at once whilst not bothering to use sync etc, who are able to cue juggle seamlessly without fail because plainly I must be listening to the wrong people.

[ImNoDJ]

Imnodj you must give me the names of some of these DJ's who are able to harmonic mix up to 4 tracks at once whilst not bothering to use sync etc, who are able to cue juggle seamlessly without fail because plainly I must be listening to the wrong people.

Jeff Mills. Has only been doing it for decades. There are plenty of four deck videos, but this three deck one shows his moves very clearly. New DJs have no idea how high the bar for actual live performance is.

This is live DJing to me. If he drops his concentration for a second there will be a very abrupt stop in the music, or a mismatched beat etc. Its exciting to watch because its both musical and physically skillful.

Notice he also does no ridiculous knob theatre. Everything he touches has an effect.

[ImNotDedYet]

Sync and quantize, IMO have nothing to do with actually playing live. If they did, then we'd have to throw drum machines and sequencers out the window as well in the ability to "play live" since they're sync'd, quantized and sequencers oftentimes are the timing "brain" of a live set. That's not to mention that even with handy tools like sync and quantize, one could still massively screw it up.

[ImNoDJ]

Sync and quantize, IMO have nothing to do with actually playing live. If they did, then we'd have to throw drum machines and sequencers out the window as well in the ability to "play live" since they're sync'd, quantized and sequencers oftentimes are the timing "brain" of a live set. That's not to mention that even with handy tools like sync and quantize, one could still massively screw it up.

People doing livePA with drum machines and synths almost always play at least one part live and by hand IMO, or have a live drummer or bass player etc.

Timing is most of music. If you are giving control of timing over to a machine, then its simply not live music by its very defintion. My opinion on this is very specific and doesnt mean I dont enjoy a fully synced set, as long as the music is good.