I will be purchasing a PA for mobile gigs very soon and after researching and reading all I could find on the following choices, I am not sure which way to go.
The choices are:
Matrix b-52 1000 v2 which I found for $650 new
Behringer 212d’s and 1500d found lightly used for $650 and would need to purchase stands and cables
RCF 312a’s for $900 new and would still need stands and cables.
Budget is $1000 or less, crowd size up to 100, venues would be bars/pubs.
Your thoughts about your experience with any of these set ups are greatly appreciated!
Not familiar with the RCFs but you will want a subwoofer.
For $1000 you can get used QSCs although you won’t be able to get a subwoofer for that price too which you will want. Really though I wouldn’t spend money on any powered PA speakers other than QSC but that is personal preference. EV is also decent and a bit cheaper.
They behringers don’t sound all that great but I would still take them over the matrix. I have a b212 sitting around and it isn’t terrible but if I was doing mobile gigs I would get a better PA system.
Thanks for the thoughts!
RCFs have gotten great reviews from people with experience with different speakers, so I am leaning towards them with the idea to save up and add a sub later. The Behringers I know are on the low end, but had seen a few reviews that with a sub they were pretty good and I was tempted by the price.
Hard to find good unbiased reviews though. Too many fall into the category of “I bought it so I think it’s good”
Yeah I don’t trust most internet reviews, especially the blogs- everyone is afraid of telling the brutal honest truth and will always try to be gentle and put a positive spin on a product regardless of how much it might suck or just be mediocre. When is the last time you read a negative review on a music related product on a major blog DJ or otherwise?
There are very few NEW systems that you can buy for <$1000. You have listed both of the options that I recommend.
If you elect to purchase used, it is possible to get a really good deal. It is also possible to purchase someone else’s problem. Buyer beware.
This is a great price new. At $650, the system will retain a LOT of that value even used. I see used versions of this system selling for around $500 in my area all the time (MSRP is about $900 new).
Keep in mind that you may still need to buy stands, and longer cables.
The B52 Martix 1000v2 systems are reasonable value for money. BUT, it is not worth trying to expand the system later. If you get this system, use it to make enough $$$ to upgrade a full new PA, and then you can sell the B52 system or put it on backup duty.
As long as your expectations are reasonable, this system will cover 100 people. This is a good setup for a mobile DJ who will be doing wedding receptions…BUT do not expect to blow the roof off a frat house party.
The Behringer cabinets are OK…but the RCF’s are noticeably clearer and louder. I would not buy this particular Behringer gear…tho there is a lot of product from them that is worth the $$$.
The RCF 312A’s are good value for money, and sound better than they should for the $. This is the route I would go…as the system can be easily upgraded in the future with subs.
The B52Matrix1000v2 system will have a better overall sound than the RCF3112A’ (tops only). BUT, if you add a decent sub to the 312A’s, then it will be a better system.
Will be running mono regardless, as very few people would be in the sweet spot for running stereo. I didn’t consider this because I didn’t think the coverage would be good enough with one top. Am I wrong?
Thanks for the thoughts soundinmotion!
I guess the real question in my mind is will the RCF’s be enough to do the job untill I can afford a sub. Realize that I will not be doing any frat parties, weddings, or very large rooms. The bars/pubs will have a dance floor for maybe 40-60 people or less.
I guess it just depends on the type of music you’re doing. Dance music can often times do alright without a sub just because a lot of that “punch” that you hear is actually located in the midbass frequencies.
If you’re doing anything with lots of content below 60hz (rap, dubstep, drum and bass, etc), you’d be better off with a single sub + single main. Maybe find a single K8 used? Their coverage is surprisingly good.
The lack of a bass with out a sub is my main concern. I wish some where in my area had the RCF’s so I could go listen to them sans sub.
Getting one sub and one top sounds interesting. Only problem I can see is it would bust the budget unless I got a cheap sub. I did see the Electro-Voice ZXA1-SUB for around $500 which would keep it in budget and not be Behringer.
Do you run in stereo? I thought doing so wouldn’t sound very good, especially to those on one side of the dance floor.
[QUOTE]I guess it just depends on the type of music you’re doing. Dance music can often times do alright without a sub just because a lot of that “punch” that you hear is actually located in the midbass frequencies.
If you’re doing anything with lots of content below 60hz (rap, dubstep, drum and bass, etc), you’d be better off with a single sub + single main. Maybe find a single K8 used? Their coverage is surprisingly good.[/QUOTE]
It will be dance music, but no dubstep or dnb. A little rap/hip-hop (they demand it in my area), breakbeat, some house and electro, and some 80’s nights.
I found a K8 for $550 refurbished, K12’s for $675, but If I go one top one sub, what sub?
Wish my budget was bigger, but it is what it is.
Doesn’t matter what brand tops you get you will want a sub. I disagree that you can get away with some dance music without a sub- all of the punch from the kick should be coming from the sub which is what people dance to and it’s not just sub bass lines below 60hz.
Usually crossover is around 80-100 and by having a sub it allows you to get much better fuller sound without straining your speakers or having to go so loud it gets abrasive while still having no weight in the low end.
The <40Hz content is more “rattle your innards” content. I have found that most of the “chest thump” in music comes in at 80Hz and 160Hz…quite a bit higher than expectations. It is possible to “feel” “chest thump” with tops alone.
A kick drum frequency is a function of the diameter of the drum head, the thickness of the drum head, and the tension of the drum head. A drum head is a marvelous thing to see in slow motion. The combination of dozens of primary modes, and the “equal loudness curve” attenuating the perception of low frequencies, leads to the prominence of the “second mode” of a bass drum - which is typically around 80Hz (knowing nothing else about the drum).
I do agree that a dedicated sub is a requirement for dance music. For the most part the instruments that will be put into the subs are bass guitar (e.g. low E on a bass guitar is 41Hz, low B is 31Hz on a 5 string), keys (really any synth), and other electronically generated low frequency content.
Coverage is not really the concern. Two tops on either side of an 8ft table typically sound worse than one speaker. The reason is destructive interference. To avoid destructive interference, sources should be placed two wavelengths apart. At 100Hz, a wavelength is 11.3ft, so “tops” should be 22.6ft apart. I place my tops 25ft apart…because my tape measure doesn’t have a “.6” mark.
If you run tops “full range”, there might 60Hz content. That is a 18.8ft wavelength…or almost 38ft for two wavelengths. Soooo…until the parties get into a large enough space to place tops 40ft apart…two tops are more likely to be destructive than constructive.
“Coverage” in small rooms is a nightmare. I hate any room less than 3000 sqft (roughly 50ft x 60ft)…the room modes drive me nuts.
In rooms with a long wall of at least 100ft, I run stereo in a “L R L R” pattern. THAT does add some depth to the sound field and allows the perception of higher volume than is actually in the room.
For that application, a pair of 312A’s will be fine. Run mono, run stereo…it won’t make enough difference to matter. The point is to get sound onto the floor…and still let people order at the bar. A sub will improve the “fullness” of the sound, but doesn’t really make the overall sound “louder” (e.g…all the frequencies from 100Hz-ish and up will be “the same” with or without a sub…sort of…offloading the <100Hz content from the tops will allow a more power to be put into the mid-bass frequencies but that’s going to net <3dB of additional SPL).
I appreciate the knowledge being dropped! Keep it coming. Still mulling over what to do though.
I have heard the B-52 is ok, and I have heard that it is crap, in more places than this thread, so I’ll eliminate it from my choices. I really want to have a good sounding system.
The Behringer got the thumbs down, as I thought it would. So it’s out.
That leaves the rcf’s or the new option of one top one sub, but the better subs I see are $800-2000 which would blow the budget when combined with a good top. There are a few for around $5-600, like the EV i posted earlier, but are these any good?
While you are correct - you should definitely have a sub if possible, a decent pair of mains can produce a solid amount of “punch,” because a great deal of these notes fall over 80hz, which is something they can handle. It’s not going to sound nice and full like it should, but people on the dance floor will still be able to feel these notes in their chest. For 60 people, if he’s strictly doing 128bpm top 40 remixes and electro, a solid pair of mains without a sub should suffice.
Granted, I’d still rather use a single main + sub combination. You’re better off having a quieter system with better low-end extension, IMO.
I am a HUGE fan of DIY speakers. I built 20 for my own use (ten tops + ten subs). Plus I also built all my own road cases.
BUT…there are no good “plate amp” solutions for the DIY builder…so a passive system is really the only viable DIY solution. That means a crossover and amps at a minimum…and for a few more $$$ you really should get a digital PA manager with EQ, limiters, etc. That just isn’t going to fit into a <$1k budget. If you have $2k…then DIY cabinets can be a good (but not great) value.
