API Drivers & Sound quality
Hi
while trying to persuade a group of djs about wave files i realized traktor was sounding pretty bad in comparison to wavelab. Having done a bit of research it seems that the API or audio driver is the problem (maybe)
Wavelab runs best on MME-WDM were as traktor recommends ASIO.
I was wondering if anyone else has come across this and has any comments or suggestions.
I am running
Traktor 3
Sony Vaio xp sp3
focusrite saphire firewire soundcard
VCi-100
ASIO is the standard for low latency audio drivers on Windows, it’s doubtful that the drivers are the problem.
The sound quality between WDM and ASIO form,ats seems to indicat that they infuence quality
These drivers are not exclusive to traktor; the ASIO standard was developed by Steinberg for Cubase originally and are found in every piece of high end audio software on Windows.
Hi
Am quite aware of that being a very old sound engineer, what they say and what they do can be two different things, Traktor vip support tell me4 when everything is off ie timestretch pichshift etc there is no audio processing that could alter audio quality but there is still a huge deficit in the quality of the output with the same gear and the same file. Traktor are saying that it is the API and the same has been observed in major studios throughout the world.As you say the APIs from microsoft and stineberg have been around for a long time and are industry standard but ASIO seems to favour latencey over quality
Is the difference in quality quantifiable?
I have not as yet measured the difference but in an AB test thlow end sounds almost as if filtered and the whole sound is a bit ragged round the edges(even my girlfriend noticed th difference) there is no reason that I I can find that would account for this on paper. my job is to provide the best quality audio to a number of clubs and djs, we are putting in stunning sound systems and hifi grade cable but I need to find a way to improve the sound from traktor as it is becoming one of the most popular formats along with serato which will be my next project.
Cheers
Get an A/B recording of the output from the soundcard and post it up here mate, it’d be good to see this proved one way or another.
You’re making a bunch of assumptions based on a single theory. None of your argument is researched or convincing. Instead of arguing about your opinion, how about backing up your theory with facts?
Traktor will run fine with WDM drivers (if your chosen interface has them), so why not run a series of tones through it and use whatever spectral analysis tools you prefer to do a spectrum analysis of the tones. The tones you create should cover from 20z-20khz (I would think 10-15 points would give you a decent idea of the frequency response if it’s as audible as you claim). You should also capture a silent baseline graph so we can get an idea of your system, then run a series with WDM and ASIO, as well as a series using Wavelab as the source (instead of Traktor) using both ASIO and WDM. Put these graphs together and publish your results, and outline your procedure. Give others a link to your test tones and the settings you used for your spectrum analysis (hanning, blackman, FFT size, etc) so they can recreate your test on their machine.
This should be pretty trivial to put together for a very old sound engineer since you already have the tools you need. I’m sitting here looking at a spectrum and spectrogram right now.
What sound systems are you using btw?
I have a lot of friends who work in pro audio, my mate who owns an extremely large Noise Control Audio system swears by T3 and an Audio 8 and wavs.
will set it up on the bench next week get the test tone cd out and do proper analysis .Not that it will change the way it sounds
working systems Funktion one res 4 res2 f118 f121 mc2 xta
home studionsystem linn isobarik
Working entirely in wav makes a huge difference. Have a mac setup but wavelab doesn’t do mac so cant compare the two, traktor sounds the same through that as well
I see you listing sound systems, but I thought the point of this was to negate any of that end of the process and take REAL measurements of the engine output. I could very well list Studer Vista 5, SSL 4056GL+, SSL C100, Euphonix Max Air, Digidesign ProControl, etc (since they’re all consoles I’ve spend a LOT of time in front of), but that wouldn’t have anything to do with this test or your theory either.
Hi
I was asked what I was using and that is my day to day kit. I am looking to find out what is causing this very real problem we have all came across weird anomallys in sound quality, I am sure you have come across stuff like this in your time, as I said I will dust of the old wooden klark technic and check what the differences in the spectrum are but not being a software engineer I am looking for answers and posible solutions as to what is causing this quite profound diference in audible quality when playing the same file on two diferent pieces of software. If you have any suggestions I would love to hear them. I have tried the various api options in the traktor audio panel and have found no improvement. Cheers
I have no further suggestions. The testing is pretty straightforward. I look forward to seeing your results, and will test on my equipment to corroborate.
ASIO is supposed to be “bit perfect” as in that it wont colour the sound, i really cant see why the drivers would affect the quality of the output at all. But like Neomonic, i look forward to seeing your test results.
these are things I am excited to hear more about. DJs make on the fly sound quality choices all the time, from EQ settings on the mixer to how bad the time stretch is gonna effect the track.
I love lots of things about Traktor Pro, but sound quality isn’t one of them. If going back to T3 and using .wav is the answer, I’ll do it. Everyone in my booth feels that the Pioneer CDJ 1000-mk3 sounds better. I remember a while back, I had a PC WinXP with T3, a FastTrackPro on ASIO with mp3 320s and I thought it sounded way better than Pioneer CDJ 100s. That is just not my experience today.
I think the API drivers aren’t the issue, but it may lead to other things. Im on a Mac so its CoreAudio, but different cards have their own drivers right? I believe the PreSonus Firebox doesn’t have a special driver, that its just CoreAudio ready.
You’re correct erikt. And because sound quality can be a very subjective thing when judged by the human ear, it might be possible that the Pioneer CDJ is coloring the audio in a way that, while more pleasing to the ear, is not at all accurate. Listeners generally don’t like a flat response.
There are a number of things that could be coloring the audio. It’s flawed logic to assume it’s the ASIO driver (especially since ASIO drivers are used by audio professionals daily and this would be a known issue).