"Crap for the masses" - What is that exactly?

“Crap for the masses” - What is that exactly?

Hi,

This is a question for serious discussion and I don’t want flaming or any other juvenile “My opinion is better than yours.” stuff in this discussion. Everyone has their own tastes and opinions. And everyone should respect that.

My issue is, I keep hearing…

“It’s crap for the masses!”

more and more about different genres of EDM music that tend to make it big (popular) and it sort of worries me, because I can’t tell the difference. I mean, are the fortunate songs that go up dance charts and are possibly making the people who made it money suddenly crap productions and musical garbage, just because they became popular? Or is there really some telltale sign (other than popularity) that you can really point out in certain songs, that make them musical crap?

I personally can like a song from one genre to another. Some music genres I like more than others. I like certain rock, certain EDM, certain top 40/ pop music, certain classical, certain hip/hop, even some country/ western and some I don’t like. It is my taste in music and no one else’s. Being a DJ (which I am not one, yet), I would imagine playing “known” (i.e. popular) music is also something useful to get the dance floor rocking. I believe such songs are called “bangers”??? But if popular songs really are just crap for the masses, would I really be a bad DJ for playing such music that I also like?

What really defines music as “crap for the masses”?

Again, please keep the discussion civilized.:slight_smile:

scamo

i would not really worry about if a tune you are playing is “crap for the masses”. In the UK drum and bass is hitting the top 20 every month and it does not stop me playing a good track at a rave. Just goes to show that the charts goes from EDM to Bands and back again every 4 or 5 years.

If a tune is good just play that shit

+1

I’d rather have people listen to ‘‘crap for the masses’’ than nicki minaj stuff. I do enjoy the music some call crap for the masses. It is kind of funny when people talk shit about the genres other than what they listen. They are the people who couldn’t leave that high school attitude. We would do that thing when were in high school. Grow up maybe?

Surely it’s nothing to do with snobbery about popularity, it’s because shit music is shit. I’m a huge pop music fan but I don’t even think that a lot of pop edm works within that oeuvre.

If there is ONE artist that I would call crap for the masses…

On Beatport I’ll go through new releases previewing songs, then I’ll go through some charts, then I’ll gro through featured. Finally after that, which is usually several thousand songs in a week or so I’ll have a look at the top 100 for a few of my favorit genre’s. With the Beatport Pro app I can see which songs I’ve already listened to and which I’ve added to my hold bin. There’s usually handfull out of that list that I’ve added to my hold bin to give a second listen to. So it’s not all crap for the masses, it’s just that the “purists” are full of hate.

Sometimes there seems to be a clear cynicism in the production of a track that is aimed at mimicking what is currently popular but falls flat because the song is shit.

Other times a song is produced cynically to be aimed at the masses but because everyone working on it has skill and taste they actually make a great pop record.

When you play underground music youre audience may well be made up of dickheads who don’t want to hear pop because they believe it’s all shit regardless.

Thing is people is people and they like what they want. I hated STEPS wen they came out… Still do. But my missus, who has proper good taste in music normally, likes them for her guilty pleasure

What you gonna do?

A song being extremely popular doesn’t necessarily mean it fits into the “crap for the masses” category. A CFTM (crap for the masses) song can fail horribly commercially too. It’s about being formulaic IMO, kinda like the rise of auto-tune in popular rap songs. A certain sound becomes popular and others jump on that bandwagon.

I don’t believe in the concept of a “guilty pleasure” in music, because it implies that I care what other people think of the music I like, and I don’t. Even when I was at school, I hated all the posing people did, pretending they liked this and that, but then abandoning it when the next “cool” thing came along. I’ve never been like that, thankfully.

When I was playing gigs, the most important thing for me was being happy in what I was doing, which meant playing music I liked. DJs may have to make some compromises, but I couldn’t be one of those people that goes out every weekend spinning top 40 rap when in their heart they love house music or whatever. DJing is at its best when you can play music you like/love to a crowd that are digging it, so I wouldn’t worry about what’s considered “CFTM” unless you’re spinning it every night and hating every minute of it.

It’s not about whether a track became popular. Maybe a little more about whether it was MEANT to become popular.

Basically there’s two types of musicproducers: those who switch on their gear to make music, and those who switch it on to make money. The latter ones don’t tend to try express themselves artistically through their music but are looking for the smallest common denominator in order to sell their tracks to as many people as possible.

Doing so usually leads to shallow tracks that only go for the sure shot, without taking any risks or being innovative as this might lead to the track not being as succesfull as it could have been by just resorting to often tested cord progression, rhythms and melodies.

Kind of like fast food, e.g. from McDonalds: full of artificial flavors and streamlined as hell, so almost everybody likes it. But if you ask anybody who only has the slightest clue about good quality food he’ll tell you that it’s basically shit.

Because it has always been and will always be like this: things that are made aiming for maximum commercial success, even at the expense of artistic integrity and quality, are and will always be just this:

Crap for the masses.

If you wanna call me a hater for stating this: go ahead.

when you follow a DJ and love his tracks (example Axwell) and then David Guetta gets popular with his basic three chord electro crap and then Axwell starts making three chord electro crap it’s easy to see the crap for the masses. Axwell was trying to be “real” but he likes money too. When his ego (and Angello and Ingrosso) says “you can be rich too man”, it’s hard to not “sellout”.

Good house music is too complex for the masses. The masses are not meant for house music. They are meant for radio fluff on their way to work. Well, David Guetta made radio fluff electro crap and it worked. And Usher, Flo Rida, Pit Bull and Rihanna are now making house. Congratulations !

yeah. you gotta be sophisticated n stuff to listen to house. you know. it is hard being in the house elite but somebody has to set itself apart from the plebs. :tada:

That’s not true though, I’d like to think my fellow residents and I play pretty authentic house music and our night is very popular in the small city it’s based in, especially with younger clubbers who would normally be the target demographic for dross like SHM.

Just the same as ever there isn’t the same level of exposure for the better music, and if people don’t know any better then it’s not really their fault.

In Miami we have the huge superclubs that fly in super DJ’s to play crap for the masses and then we have the little indie clubs that think they are so cool, when really they don’t have a clue. Unfortunately, only the gay clubs get it right here.

I always thought this was interesting. Mr Oizo’s Flat Beat. Take away the video and you have a clearly non-commercial track designed for people who liked to “proper” electronic music.

I had friends of my parents telling me how much they “loved” the record. They promise it wasn’t just the video Senior Directors of large corporations suddenly loving a track which quickly become number one in the UK because of…

Exactly, you can be underground and accessible. It’s not the same as churning out lowest common denominator edm.

This is an interesting statement and it is similar to saying a song is “crap music for the masses”.

What makes good house music complex or rather too complex for the masses? What is good house music at all? And what is too simplistic that makes “crap music” something only for the masses? Is there really a “only 3-chords is crap” in music? Aren’t a lot of very good rock songs (popular and not) based on three basic chords?

I want to understand the differences musically. Can anyone point the differences out with clear examples in a musical comparison and with factually based musical arguments? Or is it really down to personal tastes in the end, what crap is and what isn’t?

scamo

It’s nothing to do with complexity imo, some of the best house tracks are very stripped down. I think the feel of the drums is a lot of the house sound.

One thing that separates “true” house music from house-like pop music is song structure. While those tunes from Guetta feat. random R&B artist, Calvin Harris and so many others borrow Tempo (128 bpm) and Instrumentation (dominant 4/4 bass drum, clap on the 2 and 4, hi-hats on the 8ths, Avicii-esque synths) from House music but when it comes to song structure, they are a lot closer to Rock.

They nearly all follow a verse - chorus - verse - chorus - bridge - chorus - chorus scheme that essentially hasn’t changed since the Beatles. “Real” House music on the other hand has a drastically different structure based on elements being added or removed at the beginning of every phrase (I think someone else can explain this better than I can) leading to tracks that are 6 to 15 minutes long.
And if you think about it, those Mainstream artists hardly have another chance since they must be suitable to be played at radio stations and thus are not allowed to exceed 3 to 4 minutes in length. And since the “mainstream” radio listener doesn’t want to hear anything different to the accepted scheme, it’s very rare that Radio Edits of longer house tracks reach the same popularity as those produced to the Rock scheme. Levels being the only exception I can think of at the moment.

Also, Vocals are very different in house music and mainstream sound-a-likes. While real house mostly (there are exceptions… talking about Jack and his groove) use vocals in a repetitive sense to add to the track (more like an instrument), mainstream tracks try to tell some kind of story (how irrelevant it may be). You could say, that house music are “tracks” in the original sense of the word, while Guetta, Calvin Harris & Co. produce “songs”.

That is not a new phenomenon by the way, not at all. Look at early Hip-Hop that was largely based around sampling and scratching and how nearly all chart-topping hip-hop since the late 90s incorporated the scheme mentioned above.

Sure, you can produce exceptional music within that framework, but you are a lot more limited in options where you can stand out. In Rock music it was either about great lyrics or singers with great voices, but within what is called “crap for the masses” now, there isn’t anything extraordinary. It’s basically auto-tuned mediocre singers, singing about how much they drank and who they fucked last night and that simply isn’t enough to impress musically. And since some househeads are really scared by the sheer popularity of that stuff they try to portray it as inferior to “the real stuff”. And again that’s nothing new. I’m sure you could hear some punk fans referring to Blink182 or Offspring as “crap for the masses” in the 90s.

In the end, I think it’s an understandable reaction to defend the music you love by trying to create a distinction. But instead of trying to distinguish in the way i tried above it’s done by portraying one form of music as qualitatively superior. And the recent events around DJs getting kicked off the decks show, that there is a misunderstanding with Club Owners and promoters who think that people who listen to house-like Pop want to listen to House music. So, it is necessary to find different names, but I’m not the one to judge if “crap for the masses” is the right way to express it.

I am really, really, really sick of the notion that just because something is popular, it’s bad.