Customers want sync, they just don't know it.

Off-Topic / Lounge
1

Customers want sync, they just don’t know it.

In a perfect world all DJs would know how to beat match and do so sublimely.

~however~

I went to a party this past weekend, some of the DJs were very good, some were not. There were some really horrible mistakes that made all the guests miss a beat and clear a floor. I couldn’t help thinking that the customers would have been much happier if the DJs were using sync. What’s funny is the guy running the party insists that his DJs don’t use it but at the end of the day, the paying customers are the ones who suffer.

2

Mistakes happen, needle’s jump, tone arm gets knocked etc

Have I or any of the guys I’ve DJ’d with cleared a floor because of it, no, do they get heckled, yeah, and crowds join in.

Mistakes and imperfections are part of life, f*ck sync.

3

I don’t like where this is going.

4

Sync has its places but to say that crowds would be happier if sync is used, going a bit far if you ask me.

I also wouldn’t say customers suffer because some of the lack of sync.

Sync has its place, has it uses and I’m not against it, just to clarify.

5

Well, if they hired decent DJ’s the customers would not suffer in the first place and that is the job of the musical director / manager or whoever is in charge of hiring - a manager who cannot differentiate between good or bad DJ’s should not be in the position in the first place.

Personally I would find somewhere else to go where they understand the difference and the DJ’s don’t clear the floor due to a bad mix.

Customers don’t necessarily want sync, they just want a DJ who knows what they are doing

6

What is wrong with sync?

7

This is pretty spot on, it shouldn’t be an issue of whether sync should be used, sync can be used very effectively in certain situations. I personally don’t rely on it, and I do agree that DJ’s should know how to beat match without digital sync, it is after all a primary requirement for decent mixing.

8

I don’t know. If they were told that the DJ was using it I’m sure that many would object just out of principle, but it’s kind of like don’t look in the kitchen thing. At least on the night I went, I’d say about half the DJs were “not there” yet and I’m convinced the customers who paid $50 a ticket shouldn’t be used for their practice. Seems like it would be better to use the sync and practice at home.

Like I said in the first post. In a perfect world paid DJs would know what they are doing, or rather be very good at it. That being said I’ve never ever ever been to a party where some DJ didn’t screw up. And if people only hired perfect DJs where would you/I/anyone have got your start?

9

I just dont understand the pretentious people that go on and on about using sync. If there is a tool that makes your job more accurate and the outcome better, why hate on it? I can see having respect for ones that dont use it but actually hating on people that use it is ridiculous.

By trade Im a construction worker. the Egyptians had none of the modern tools I had. Am I cheating by using modern tools even though its possible to build massive structures with primitive tools? Fuck no. With my modern tools I can build much faster and with greater accuracy.

My best friend is an accountant. Is she cheating by using a calculator or should she do it the “more skilled” way and do everything on paper, longhand? Fuck no. With computers she can do her math work much faster and with greater accuracy.

The point of a DJ is to keep people dancing. However the fuck you have to do it. I would rather have someone using sync with a GOOD mix that keeps everyone dancing then a DJ not using all of his tools available that keeps emptying the floor with mistakes.

Just my .02

10

DJing is meant to be an artistic pursuit. Once you remove any physical skill from it, a lot of that art and craft is now gone.

Sync isnt the problem, its the lack of effort and commitment to the art, and this seems to be most displayed by those that use sync in my experience. They are low effort in all other areas of DJing, from beatmatching to phrasing to selection.

Anyway your analogies dont hold. A better analogy would be:

If a guitarist doesnt want to learn how to strum rhythms on a guitar, they could just program a robotic arm to do it live. People might enjoy the music, but they sure as hell dont think he is a proper guitar player.

11

yeah and piano players need player pianos and not better pianists!

sync djs train wreck but they don’t know how to fix it.

12

I think the number on problem with this argument is the fact that being a DJ means so many different things to so many different people.

Again, If you look at it like some pretentious artist then yes, I understand the argument that sync is cheating.

If you look at it like a DJ is just someone that is there to provide music and keep you dancing then I understand the “any means necessary” way of looking at it.

I dont care enough to hate on either sides. As long as you keep me dancing with good toons that’s all im there for. I go to a party to dance and feel the music. I do not go to a party to judge the DJ on what they are doing and criticize the way they get their job done.

again, just my .02

much love.

13

Absolutely not, and its not about cheating. Amateur DIY’ers could simply buy the right tools too and undercut you to get the jobs you righty deserve as a seasoned pro.

14

I do not necessary think it’s cheating to use sync, however I’m merely pointing out the fact that sync djs also wreck.

I enjoy live music of all kinds, more than just the dj variety. I wouldn’t think it’s by any means “pretentious” to enjoy experiencing a skilled performer perform. I’d not have it any other way.

15

Its nothing to do with pretension.

The fact that your language makes me consider that you think that craft=pretension speaks volumes. This is of course my own interpretation of your comment.

16

I like the guitar analogy, mostly because I play guitar (badly). I use an electronic tuner because it’s quicker and more accurate than my ears. I occasionally leave it on when I’m going to be bending strings a lot (i play blues, so that happens a good bit) so I don’t get lazy and go flat or get over-zealous and push something too sharp. I don’t stare at it, but I do use it, especially when practicing.

I also use capos and occasionally use open tunings even when I’m not playing slide.

I cheat.

Some people are worse than me and use “Drop D” tuning (or some variation of it) so that they can play power chord riffs by just moving one finger along the neck and strumming only the lowest 2 strings instead of the insanely more difficult task of holding 2 fingers in one position and moving it up and down the neck.

In case you can’t tell, I like sync just fine. I also really like Felix da Housecat’s take on it.

[quote=““Felix da Housecat in a DJTT Interview””]
I would be a hipocrite to say I hated [the digital devils] because I don’t want to be carrying eight record cases around the world…I was on Serato…I said I was never going to be on Traktor like three times and what made me jump…I saw Lucciano at Pacha, right…and I was like “how is this guy able to dance, drink champagne, have a conversation, AND rock the floor, AND he got four decks goin” And he’s killin’ it. Right? And I’m sittin’ watchin’ it, and I’m like “There’s no way you could do that on vinyl or on CDJs.”
[/quote]

I learned on vinyl. I still enjoy mixing that way, but I don’t want to pay for records. I enjoy the Serato no-aides view with turntables or a controller, and I really like mixing that way. A lot. And I enjoy the Traktor all sync all the time 4 decks, be careful not to ruin the mix by adding too much way of spinning. A lot.

At the end of the day, we’re playing (theoretically good) music on a glorified stereo system largely to people who have NO IDEA what we do or how we do it.

I draw the line at pre-recorded mixes and mashups just because it’s so easy to do it live. But short of that, if the party is rocking, who’s to judge?

Some of my best non-live mixes were done in Ableton, just dragging clips in to arrange view and putting them the right places…no effects, no EQs, no freaking volume faders…I just got the phrase matching perfect and let the track structures do the mixing for me…including re-arranging songs and adding pieces where they needed more. I literally did nothing but (the ableton equivalent of) push play at the right time, and some key-shifting to make sure all of the mixes were harmonically pleasing. The breaks 2007 mix on my much-neglectd mixcloud page is one such mix. I think that’s the one with a section that involved the original of Halcyon & On & On and 2 or 3 other remixes of it, and I think a beat I threw together…all without faders. But I might be thinking of a different one.

If you pick the right track and press play at the right time, that’s DJing. Everything else is either there to enhance the experience (beatmatching, some effects, mashups, doubles, adding parts/sounds, etc.) or cover up mistakes (EQing, faders, key-shifting).

17

agreed!

18

Please quote me where I said craft = pretention

Do NOT put words in my mouth.

I said the pretentious people constantly bashing the “inferior” for using tools such as sync. Or the people that still use records and think people that use controllers are a joke.

Dont twist what im saying because you dont agree with me.

19

i dont like using sync because that means more work to make sure the beat grid is aligned properly.

imho, i think its easier to not use sync - just drop the song in the at the right part and get the bpm in the right ball park.

20

Nah. Its very clear what you were saying, and you got called out on a silly blanket statement.

“Again, If you look at it like some pretentious artist then yes, I understand the argument that sync is cheating.”

You explicitly stated that one is pretentious if they think sync is cheating. Youre doing as much ‘bashing’ as anyone else in the thread.