I Want to Learn to Mix on CDJ's

DJ Gear & Hardware CDJ & Vinyl DJing
21

Well, there will be no beat grid, that is something cool to learn actually, things such as quantize, auto-beatloop won’t work, you will need to have timming with your hands and listen carefully with your ears. Even with a CDJ-2000 Nexus if you press the 4-beatloop and there is no rekordbox info the track will drift perceptibly.

The BPM Lock I don’t know, probably it will try to get the tracks to the same bpm, but it will fail because both CDJs will find close but slightly wrong BPMs, so they will drift for sure.

Yea MIK is the way to go, I just said that because I personally hate rekordbox and want you to hate it too :thumbsup:
Rekordbox will work normally, but it does some things that would make you very pissed off, like I don’t know if you use traktor or serato but imagine creating hundreds of hot cues for hundreds of tracks and realise inside the DJ booth that 80% of them simply don’t exist anymore… this was one of the (multiple) things I’ve had to deal with when using rekordbox…

2 options:

If MP3:

-The waveform will take too much time to load, probably more than the time of the track so you can forget using waveforms wih MP3s.

-MP3 files can show up as ERROR on the screen and you will not be able to play them if this happens. This can occur if you use VBR (Variable Bit Rate) files or files with bugged/corrupted/IDK tags.

So, if you are using MP3 files in a NO-RB USB general loading (not just waveform) will be slower and you may have some errors with some tracks.

If WAV:

-The waveform will quickly load and you will be able to use it normally (with rekordbox it will be an instant load, and with WAV it will take a few seconds, but in the end its the same thing).

-I never saw a WAV file fail for any reason.

So, if you are using WAV files in a NO-RB USB you will have fast loading and no bugs ever.

If you use other kind of file, I don’t know, sorry.

PS: It is important to always format (twice) your USB drives as FAT-32 before using on CDJs (using rekorbox or not) and remember to always choose the “complete formatting” option not the quick one.

22

Obviously, but what would those functions do?

So when you load a track it analyzes as it loads and figures where the one is for the grid and what the BPM is, similarly to the way Traktor behaves when you load a track for the first time?

So I’d basically have to create folder trees like: “Genre>Tempo>Key” and then the tracks would be sorted by like alphabetical order in the Key folder in this example?

23

That’d odd.. You’d think a fucking CD/MP3/WAV player could get BPM right.. I guess that’s why I spend so much time beatgridding and hot cueing my songs for Traktor.

You seem to be really quick to hate on RB. Is there anyone here who has had a different experience with RB to shed some light from another angle? I value your opinion, I do, and you’re telling me lots of what I’m sure is good info, but you’re extremely biased so I’d just like some other opinions.

24

Like Daniboy said, non-RB USBs behave like any storage device that you connect to a computer (which is what CDJs basically are): it let’s you access the files on it. Nothing less, nothing more.

You don’t get access to any of the meta data, which means you won’t have access to any kind of information in the tags of the files, e.g. BPM, hot cues, grid, key, etc.

However, if you have a CDJ that supports Rekordbox I don’t see any reason why you shouldn’t use it and use non-RB sticks instead.

I don’t agree with Daniboy regarding the reliability of RB, I’ve never had any bigger problems with it and everybody I know who uses it is quite happy with it.

I’m not saying it’s 100% failsafe, but neither is Traktor, and other than with Traktor you could simply have a handful of CDs as back-up and keep on playing using the same device if you should ever have problems loading a track from RB (I’ve never had RB crash mid-track).

Yep, that’s why :wink:

Auto BPM detection is never perfect, and even less if it’s on the fly from a playing audio file.

Grid doesn’t do anything on CDJs below the 2000 (maybe the 900, but I’m not sure).

But for someone who wants to learn how to mix without all the little helpers Traktor has to offer, you seem very concerned with BPM, grids, etc. on CDJs.

You should at least learn how to beatmatch and mix without any of those ‘little helpers’.

25

1000 mk2s, which are over 10 years old, get the correct bpm for the majority of my house/techno songs. Rekordbox is good even with shuffly UK garage, so I’d say CDJs are quite reliable when it comes to bpm reading. However, it’s always good to be able to actually beatmatch by ear, so you shouldn’t worry about that.

26

What I’m doing is buying a cheap pair of vinyls and a mixer and beatmatching by ear, I’m pretty sure you can translate your skills on vinyl over to CDJ, right?

27

If you learn to beatmatch on vinyl, learning on CDJs should be a breeze.

Also, I don’t get the hate on RB, I use it every weekend and have not had one single issue to date.

28

I guess it’s one of those things where those who have had issues are often the most vocal.

I know several people who absolutely swear by Rekordbox and gig with it regularly- in contrast I used it for a year with my CDJ900s and had numerous issues (crashing the computer/losing playlists/corrupting flashdrives/crashing the players/players not reading RB), to the point where I was glad to swap over to Denon’s Engine software because I just didn’t feel like I could trust Rekordbox for gigs.

I agree though that if you are one of the people who has it running with no issues it’s a fantastic program, I guess like anything computer based its perfomance can be affected by so many variables that it’s not always easy to rationalize how some people can have so many issues with a program that runs flawlessly for others.

29

Exacly!

Imagine a software that runs on Mac and Windows, that can be used on 6 different models of CDJs and 3 different models of DJMs being used with multiple combinations of software version and hardware firmware, that transfer its information through any USB device, USB-Stick, HDD of any brand etc. or even through direct computer connection. That can pair meta data with multiple audio formats stored on the same or on different folders.

The combination is almost infinite. Now add to this equation the fact that pioneer is not making all its effort to solve the problems and make it flawless (they delete posts of complaints on the forums, they take weeks to answer a question, and let ridiculous spam posts lay there for days…).

Now make this software free.

It’s not hard to understand why things are they way they are for some of us. RB may work with some people, but it definately didn’t with me.

Some can argue that it is just as buggy as traktor or serato… well I would say it is more… but, even assuming it is just as buggy as any DJ software, I can tell you there are ways of playing music on clubs that are realiable as f**k and will not glitch, bug, drift or fail.

30

I’ve only mixed on CDJs a couple of times and never mixed on vinyl. Is there a lot of difference in skill to beatmatch between the two?

31

I could well be wide of the mark on this but I would be inclined to believe that some of the RB development cost has got factored into the price of the CDJs themselves. I know it is available independently but it doesn’t offer any real standalone functionality (obviously the cost is only borne by those who own the actual players) and I find it hard to believe that Pioneer (or anyone in that business) would offer something that is truly ‘free’.

But yes, the way I see it is that RB works flawlessly for a lot of people but not for others. Just like Traktor & Engine work flawlessly for me whilst others report numerous bugs/glitches etc.

As you say, creating a piece of software to work on multiple hardware configurations is always going to give rise to this situation. I’ve always tried to keep this in mind when offering my thoughts on Rekordbox because whilst it would be very easy to voice the frustrations I experienced I am fully aware that if I downloaded it onto a different computer there is every chance it could run as intended. Criticizing a piece of software based on it’s ability to run on one’s own specific hardware configuration, whilst valid, is not always helpful to others who may have a very different system.

In my opinion differentiating between compatibility issues and inherent faults with a piece of software is a bit of a minefield!

32

Major differences will be learning to “throw the record” and getting the nuances of nudging on tables vs. CDJs. Width and weight of the record will make a difference. Watch some youtube videos of people spinning vinyl…RTS.FM and boiler room and you’ll see how they do it, then work on it on your own. You’ll be able to hear a “key change” while nudging if your tables don’t have keylock and you’re not nudging in the right place musically. Sometimes it’s unavoidable to not hear that.

I know you’re young and probably don’t have a lot of disposable income. Vinyl’s expensive vs. digital dude.

33

The skill is exactly the same, just the handling is a little different. The skill in beatmatching is determining if the track on your headphones is going faster or slower than the one on the monitors and by how much. If anything of the rest (nudging the record/jog wheel and moving the pitch fader) faces you with insolvable problems, you should probably find another hobby.. :wink:

The two main differences between CDJs and turntables are the pitch fader and the platter.

The pitch fader on most turntables is analogue, which means it doesn’t go in increments of 0.2/0.5% but continuous, which means you can adjust it more precisely since you’ll never find yourself in the situation that the correct position would be somewhere between digital fader positions.
Also, pitch faders on turntables are often tighter, which also makes precise moves easier imo.

The difference between the platters is that a turntables platter is moving, and a CDJs jog wheel isn’t. This means that with turntables, you don’t nudge the platter backwards but rather slow it down, and on the other side you have to speed up an already running platter to nudge the track forward.
It takes a little more practice to develop a feeling about how much pressure you need to apply to the platter.

That’s because no one does. The purpose of a business is to make money, and everything a business does has to contribute to this purpose. Be it direct via sales revenue or by attracting customers who then spend money on other products/services of the company, like with rekordbox and Pioneer.

34

I agree with you.

I just get very frustrated for not being able of using the most advanced features of the CDJs when I play.

Actually I would pay, and would pay A LOT to have a software that worked f.l.a.w.l.e.s.s.l.y with CDJs. I’ve heard about a guy that is developing an analogue software that would theoretically work on CDJs and would not have the problems RB has, but never heard about any release of this.

Maybe if Pioneer could create a CDJ that reads perfect BPM (like traktor with 3 decimal places) and without any software like rekordbox, would be a HUGE step already, sync would be possible and by manually aplying a downbeat marker on the beginning of the track a grid would also be possible. But as RB is already in use by many I believe this is just a dream :relieved:

35

If you feel you need to expand your “skill-set” and techniques, why not skip the cdj route all together and go for a pair of turntables? CDJs and controllers are very close, you aren’t tricking anyone. With a pair of 1200’s, you can buy vinyl or go the DVS route (Serato/Traktor) and have more of a “real-feel” experience to your mixes…something a controller will never give you. You mix on turntables, you can mix on anything…this used to be applied to mixing on belt-drive turntables, but now-a-days everyone mixes on direct drives obviously.

36

Maybe we can learn to ride the fader and beatmatch by ear? :roll_eyes:

37

Like you love doing this… If it was not a pain in the ass DJ softwares wouldnt exist.

Edit: Oh I forgot, you don’t do this as you use Kontrol X1 // 2011 Macbook // NI Audio 10 w/ TSP 2.6.2 // Novation LaunchkeyMini to play

38

In Traktor it takes several seconds for it to calculate a grid using an Intel CPU, and it still doesn’t work perfectly. There’s no such thing as flawless software.

Why did you conveniently exclude the very piece of hardware he uses to beatmatch?

39

I disagree, beatmatching is quite fun for me and I imagine there are a lot of people who do agree with me. DJ software exists to make DJing more accessible and more importantly, to introduce a whole range of things you can do. It’s not just about being able to press sync and drop a new tune every phrase.

40

The price of CDJs is already higher than computers (at least in my country) so intel CPU would be a good substitute for whats inside.

I’m not saying he can’t beatmatch, I’m saying he doesn’t.