Need advice, wisdom, something.

DJ Life & Community General Discussion
1

Need advice, wisdom, something.

Ok so I DJ’d at a rave last weekend, and we have a forum that we use to network and see whats going on. One of the sections is called Raviews. Its a place to comment on a party you went to.

I posted both the good and the bad and the promoter of the party who is a real douche bag tried to embarass me. Please read our dialogue and let me know, am I wrong? If so, how and why?

My review

My set got cut short, I was so into spinning that when I looked up I had no more packed basement, I thought I fucked up really bad, but I saw the bouncer and knew that the fun was over. Im just glad my fans came out to support me. Im glad I made new fans. Made new friends, made old friendships stronger. I really felt the vibe of a rave for the first time in a while, and it had nothing to do with the event itself. It was the people, not a packed venue, but I knew just about everyone there (or felt like I did <3). The sound in the bassment actually sounded awesome this time, thank you Audiophile for proving your namesake yet again. Dream-Master killed it!!! Hard Trance needs to be played later on in the evening.

Im going to voice an opinion, seeing at how its a review and all. Please take it as such.

The genres of music that are played need to be thought about more from a patrons point of view. The night should start softer, it makes me sad when hard hittting EDM is the opening genre and then we are assaulted with house music for the rest of it, with a dose of something hard in between. What really bothers me is that downstairs at the hook is always the hard hitting tracks of awesome, but it gets the worse sound? The hard stuff should be upstairs and the house/soft stuff should be downstairs. Why? Well all the couches are there, housey tracks dont mean dance your ass off, it means options, the bassment is about options. And seriously what is with the hook always shutting down the bassment early and closing outside early, that shit is so fucking stupid. Are promoters aware how gay that is? Or do they simply not care and just want to throw parties? Again, Im simply putting thoughts out there.

HIS RESPONSE

Turnout… 5/10 (looked into it seems like most people were at Fall Massive in Baltimore (which got shut down at 11pm))
DJS… 8.5/10
Vibe… 9/10
Lights… 10/10
Deco… 10/10

As far as the vibe… Promoting to the right people = that. If we had blasted out on hipster lists and booked hipster DJs, sure we’d have a packed venue, but a shitty vibe… This vibe was bringing the industrial and rave scenes together (20% vs 80%)… To say it was not the event is a false statement in my opinion.

As far as closing the outside early (which will happen at 2AM from now on)… The hook got new neighbors that like to call the cops if its too loud after a certain time… Closing outside VS people getting arrested and the party getting shut down? I’d choose closing outside.

As far as closing downstairs early… Yes I agree that is an issue; and for me at least it definitely bothers me a bit… But with a low turnout it was kind of pointless having 2 rooms with that little people… Hence my partners (not the clubs) decision to close downstairs.

As far as the set progression upstairs and down; we did book a lot of electro this time around, but to say Electro is soft is false. Trance, Tech House, Regular House, yes are soft. However I disagree that the set progression upstairs was off… We started off with Hard Trance (Not EDM, which in my opinion is more an industrial-like genre), then 2 hours of electro, then an hour of electro/industrial, into hardstyle/hardcore at peak hour, then taking it back to trancy electro for an hour, ending with psytrance… A bit weird… Yes. I’ll go as far to say that you, a mostly hardstyle dj, just want more hardstyle on the main floor rather than actually are critiquing the set progression.

As far as pleasurehead not making it is concerned; he was on a cruise and thought he would be back in time; he was not… So Woog, and the other 2 people I met @ Junction upset about that : We are bringing him out Jan 1st (not at the hook!) for an event called Audible Genocide (done in coordination with East Coast Underground); you will have comps to that event.

As far as your knack to complain about every party you are booked… Fail dude! Posting an honest review is one thing; attacking set progression and the event is another… You could of at least commented on the various awesome factors of the event (like most of the DJ sets, the amazing lighting, or the awesome decorations?) Especially after all the drama booking you in the first place. This Bridge = Burned. I understand its your opinion. This is just my opinion.

I mean as of now 3 people have booked you:

  1. Myself
  2. Carmelo (ECU) (we are basically tagging up on future events on now)
  3. Norotek

Who else is out there throwing events in NYC?

  1. Smoke - He might book you but he needs to see you spin.
  2. Dali - He most likely won’t book you.
  3. Rob Rewind - I don’t really see hardstyle @ his events; he more caters to the house crowd.
  4. Sam Black - Throws hipster parties
  5. Matt Cuba - Throws huge college events but doesn’t really know rave djs.

I’ll go as far to say that all of them would not book you again after a review like this. I’ve tried many times to explain this to you, you just are not getting it. Don’t get me wrong I still like you as a person and consider you a friend of mine; but business wise I’m done with you.

MY RESPONSE

EDM = Electronic Dance Music which is what all the music last night was. ELECTRONIC DANCE MUSIC.

EBM = Electronic Body Music which is what is played at industrial/goth themed events. Audiophile and Shunt played some EBM, but it is still a form of EDM.

Based on the this information one can deduce that Hard Trance is in fact…wait for it…almost there…EDfuckingM!!!
where in my post did I mention EBM?

Where did I “attack” set progression?

Electro isnt soft? It can be dirty, but hard it is not. It averages 130 bpm.

I didnt play hardstyle at any events in a while. Ive spun Hardstyle for Norotek, everyone else Ive spun either electro, min/tech house, or hard techno. Check my soundcloud account out, must be another DJ Animus putting up non hardstyle mixes.

Did I say put more hardstyle DJ’s upstairs? NOPE!!! If youre going to quote me, do so.

I said “The hard stuff should be upstairs and the house/soft stuff should be downstairs. Why? Well all the couches are there, housey tracks dont mean dance your ass off, it means options, the bassment is about options.”

Make sure you burn your bridge with ECU since Carmello mentioned how there was too much electro at 2012 lol…

Why did I say that? “What really bothers me is that downstairs at the hook is always the hard hitting tracks of awesome, but it gets the worse sound?”

No one can argue that downstairs sounds better than upstairs. Impossible, its an echo chamber down their. Audiophile made a miracle happen and it sounded better than it normally does. Hey look at that I praised a DJ, omg…

Dream Master killed it…did you skip that part?

I didnt praise John Bas or Jen Mas OMG the sky is falling!!! We all know that those 2 always destroy the dance floor with their awesomeness. If said OMG john bas sucks because he didnt play twinkle twinkle little star, than yeah you might be onto something…

What about the part where I loved the vibe and how I made new friends and solidified old ones? I guess thats bashing the vibe.

I didnt comment on the lights or the deco, that DOESNT mean it was bad. I pointed out what I thought was really good and what I didnt like. I didnt bash anything. Why is it we are penalized for voicing opinions? Why am I being made the pariah here?

The drama behind booking me? WHAT?! Im used to getting paid for Junction. And besides Im not the one who called Slava an idiot for paying me. And you still owe me money from 2012 by the way.

Based on all this…how did I fail? Please explain, no really please explain.

Sorry for the long winded post, but this is not the first time he treats people like this. He is a crooked and corrupt promoter/party thrower, he is always looking to avoid paying people, comps multiple pages worth of women whom he will never sleep with and has ZERO respect for the rave scene. He is doing it so he can get out his multiple thousand dollar debt with the IRS. I want to end this guy, but the sheep refuse to listen. Ive gotten the support of a lot DJ’s and fans, but no one will publicly take the fight to him. What do I do?

2

the guy sounds like a knob to me, bit of an inflated ‘i’m a promoter’ ego goin on. not that i’m bashing promoters in any way shape or form - they’re th hardest working guys of any scene imho, but some of them get caught up in their own falsely acquired sense of power/importance, and he sounds like one of them, saying who will/won’t book you etc…

i know that alot of promoters will from time to time close ranks of some djs but only the ‘deserving cases’ so to speak, to me it sounded like you were perfectly reasonable in what you said. and based on what i can imagine of the venue from what you’ve put i agree with the comments about future organisation of sets/music types.

however, maybe you shouldn’t have sworn at him in your reply

3

mega post, from what you said, I agree with you for the most part, however maybe it got a bit harsh from you when you said

“And seriously what is with the hook always shutting down the bassment early and closing outside early, that shit is so fucking stupid. Are promoters aware how gay that is? Or do they simply not care and just want to throw parties? Again, Im simply putting thoughts out there.”

I think it was pretty good until this point which seemed a bit tactless if I knew a guy I was working with was going to read it. Your tone was really positive until here and then turned downward quite a bit. His response was pretty bad though, although I feel like you escalated the tension with your response (even if you were right). I think it was wrong to call him out personally and somewhat unprofessional.

ed. my bad I didnt realize that the last 4 lines were part of your post here and not there, I take back what I said about being unprofessional.

4

mpetersen3 - I read it as that quote WAS in the review.

IMHO a DJ should not post negative criticism of an event they’ve been paid to DJ at on a public forum. You will lose bookings. You were effectively an employee and employees should not badmouth their company in public. This may sound harsh but this is the way the game is played.

Just the same as if you post negative status updates all the time on facebook you will lose friends.

Post about the positive things or nothing at all.

Not that the promoter’s response was in any way professional. What we have here is a private argument played out in public and it hasn’t done anybody any good.

5

q4t

6

Then what is the point of a review? To say how awesome something is when in fact it needs improvement? I dont see how Im not allowed to give a critique on an event. I didnt even get payed for the event. Were supposed to just shut up and not say anything out of fear of being black listed? Srsly?! Come on guys…

7

I’d say that was the business death blow.

Generally when it comes to business negotiations, feedback, or concerns - it’s all about finesse. Your job as a business partner or employee is to be diplomatic and respectful, and at the same time if it is not mutual, you maintain a professional image, be the bigger man, and move on respectfully. It makes you look that much more credible.

If the guy is an asshole like you claim he is, Im sure people won’t have a problem seeing that, so it wouldn’t be something to loose any sleep over. But to be honest, rather you agree or disagree with him, he still calls the shots as a promoter or event thrower. It’s a business relationship and should be treated as such, no matter how good of friends you are, and especially in the eyes of the public. Using phrases like “fucking stupid”, “gay”, or “do they simply not care?” are sure to get downpour.

Imagine spending time and effort to make something (like say, a mix you are very proud of), you hand the CD to someone, and they use similar phrases like you did to describe the listening experience. You probably wouldn’t appreciate it, and at the very least, expect some unbiased, intelligent feedback to improve on (if need be). It’s all about perspective.

I’m sure when Akai and Ableton were working together on the APC-40 the meetings didn’t go along the lines of “Hey Larry, nice design, but those lights around the knobs look gay, do you not care or something?”, you can bet Larry isn’t going to talk to you at the water cooler the next day. :stuck_out_tongue:

Just my $0.02, no offense meant to you at all. Not like I was there personally, so what the hell do I know :stuck_out_tongue:

8

it doesn’t sound harsh. it’s just the truth and the op needs to learn from it.

animus it’s all good and well if you have your reservations and opinions on the events you played at, but with your review you came off as a total primadonna and i don’t think the promoters reaction to it was uncalled for at all. you should never publicly bash people who are writing your paycheques, that’s just foolish.
i bet the promoter deals with his fair share of egotistical djs who think they know better than he does about throwing parties, when in reality they don’t understand everything that goes into not only organizing events but keeping them from shutting down.

Poor form dude!

9

You can post honest reviews as much as you want to. That being the case, I don’t think you were required to review the event. So it was your call whether or not to post a review at all.

The question is, if you are one of the people involved in working at the event (whether money is involved or not), are you willing to let your desire to be critical affect your ability to get booked in the future. Again, this is entirely up to you. If you feel strongly enough about something and feel you have to take it to a public forum, that is completely your right. However, do so knowing that the promoter who booked you, as well possibly other promoters who you might hope will book you in the future, will likely see your post and may take offense to you criticizing their event. It would have been better to take your concerns privately to the promoter, or at the very least, make up an alias or have someone else post your critique.

bottom line: you have every right to free speech, just as the promoter has every right not to book you… the real world, way more often than not, is about making compromises

10

Ok, I understand all points. Just because Im right, doesnt mean Im right. I understand, I hate it but I understand.

11

Nothing a beer or 6 can’t remedy :slight_smile:

12

That’s the first step my man. It blows, no doubt, but accepting and working within the system will get you a lot farther than banging your head against the wall. I wish you the best of luck.

13

Note to Animus: If you’re going to post a negative review of an event you played at, pretend you were a patron/partygoer instead of a DJ. Anonymity is one of the greatest things about the internet, no?

But yeah, you should never bash the people who pay you, especially if they still owe you money.

14

The DJ business is no different to the business I am in, you need to know when to speak and when to stay quiet, trust me most forms of business revolve around the same ethos, give and take and keep certain things close to your chest :slight_smile:

honestly does me wonders in my line of work, kept me out of a lot of trouble and when it was time to comment came in bloody handy.

15

I have the Benefit of some business training along with a couple years of DJing. i have learned and applied some of the Business training and there are a few rules that should be followed no matter how you deal with the situation.

  1. No profanity- you cant be taken seriously when it’s used (unless you really don’t care at that point)(like the last time i sent a letter to Stanton)
  2. time solves many issues- it also allows you to calm down and think clear (too much time and you over analyze)
  3. Parties suck some times- this is for everything not just parties with music (for a dj it’s annoying but for a promoter it’s got to be ruff)
  4. Never bite the hand that feeds you- unless you are ready hunt, prepare, and cook your own food.

there are more but these are some of the ones that came to mind. take them in whatever way you want. but seeing that you asked, i have to say that both of you are in the wrong in some form. you may have been right but the your approach was wrong and he may have been wrong but his approach was right. just take a little more time rereading future writing and i don’t think you will have problems. Good Luck

16

Yeah I agree with the rest, I’m sure all your points are valid but you need to think about what you’re saying and who’s hearing you. Not to mention how it will affect your job situation.

If you don’t want to work with this guy again, you could leave it at this, but if I were in your shoes I personally would apologize for a too rough and public review (still keeping your integrity and not apologizing for your opinions) so he doesn’t spread bad rep about you around colleagues and you end up losing gigs.

17

Im not sure mentioning the guys IRS issues is good thing in a public forum.

You better be right about that because we in the UK have this view that America is a very litigious country and that is a prime example of Libel right there.

Id Edit that out if i were you.

K

18

Tell me, do Native Instruments Review Traktor? Vestax review VCI-100? Do Ean review VCI-100 Arcade Edition?

You need to be neutral to review a product, not only sounds neutral in your review, your position must be neutral.

If Ean start make advertising for Vestax or for Native Instruments, his reviews will not be neutral anymore, do you get it?

The promoter was a really douchbag but I think it’s hard to become public a criticism that should be done private…

But don’t get embarassed for that, you should talk with the promoter when the feelings calm down, explain what were your intentions and explain why you want to play with him again, you need a good reputation in this business and when you argue with someone like that it’s bad for your bookings.

19

That was what you should do, pay him a beer and talk. If you have a boss that you don’t like at all you can’t tell him that, I lunch and drink with him and try to be as social as your ego allows you to become sucessful in the business.

20

Doesnt mean he has to mention is on a public forum though - if your getting paid to play then your also getting played not to publicly bitch about anything publicly. Having a quiet word to the promoter would have been a better idea.