Reloop - Digital Jockey?

[tekki]

Hear hear!

[BentoSan]

@Guust-Fi

Don’t you people wish for rotaries? How can you properly control the effects (on 2 decks) when the knobs never match the position in the software? With rotaries al these problems would be gone? I believe the effect section is a major upgrade in comparison to the vci-100.

Have you ever used rotaries ? they are extermely difficult to use in a “smart-knob” style fashion. Try putting a freeze on the 127 position and note how difficult it is to engage in perfect time with the music, as opposed to a knob which has a physical clunk as it hits the position.

Roraties are better suited for fine tuning like say doing fine adjustments of the key in traktor. Or doing stuff where the timing isnt mission critical like adjusting and moving around a loop.

@Guust-Fi

Also yes the Vestax probably offers better build quality. This is most important with the faders and jogs but what use does it have when Vestax doesn’t offer 14bit resolution?

The jogs on the reloop having 14-bits of midi doesnt ammount to anything- you wont be able to release a track on time with the music without touch sensitive jogs. Infact you cant even grab a track without touch sensitive wheels.

@Guust-Fi

I don’t think you should be scratching on a vci-100 as well, so why would you want such high quality jogs?

• i take it you havent seen this guy scratch on a VCI-100
  Its not exactly the most ideal way to scratch yes, but its still very possible.

That said i dont scratch on my VCI but the jogs are super helpful for cueing up audio that doesnt have a cue point and being able to let it go like a peice of vinyl or a cdj.

@Guust-Fi

In my work flow I regularly use the Mixer Master Controls and the buttons on the vci-100 are just to small. Even if you mapped them to other functions wouldn’t you want full sized knobs?

Of course, no one said the VCI was perfect

@Guust-Fi

I personally prefer a black controller with white labels and a limited amount of different colours. On the vci-100 the leds almost cover all the colours of the rainbow. Furthermore, not all of the buttons light up.

Which ones are you refering too that dont light up ?
Alots of the users who complain about LED control are complaining about buttons that do have LED control already. I think there might be some buttons in the top left corner of the VCI that dont light, i need to test that.

@Guust-Fi

The effect buttons in between the EQ section seem to send out the same midi value as effect button 4?

I leave it in master mode then the middle buttons are sending out midi messages that arnt shared by other knobs on the device.

@tekki

They also tell me I’m stupid when I tell 'em I use a simple BCR.

No ones ever said that, we just point out that you cant control everything to do with mixing with bunch of rotaries.

[tekki]

Ghehehe, LoLz…

Dude… that was just there for a comical relieve.

[mekon_ca]

This sounds like there is anti-vci party with Guust-Fi as a leader. Just to say there isnt any vci-party. You can freely explore others midi controllers. Its not forbidden. Don`t kill as for loving vci.

[Guust-Fi]

@BentoSan

Have you ever used rotaries ? they are extremely difficult to use in a “smart-knob” style fashion. Try putting a freeze on the 127 position and note how difficult it is to engage in perfect time with the music, as opposed to a knob which has a physical clunk as it hits the position.

No, I haven’t, I assumed that wouldn’t be a major problem.
EDIT: The effect rotaries on the Reloop are pushable. You could map that to the freeze function to simulate a “smart-knob”.

@BentoSan

The jogs on the Reloop having 14-bits of midi doesnt ammount to anything- you wont be able to release a track on time with the music without touch sensitive jogs. Infact you cant even grab a track without touch sensitive wheels.

Agreed, I rather meant that it matters with the tempo faders, which are too short on both controllers anyway.

@BentoSan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbFz1GHZklc

• i take it you havent seen this guy scratch on a VCI-100
  Its not exactly the most ideal way to scratch yes, but its still very possible.

That said i dont scratch on my VCI but the jogs are super helpful for cueing up audio that doesnt have a cue point and being able to let it go like a peice of vinyl or a cdj.

I know scratching is very doable on the vci-100. The main tasks of the digital DJ can be fulfilled with lower quality jogs though. Those on the Reloop aren’t touch sensitive … which is kind of a major drawback in that area yes.

@BentoSan

Which ones are you refering too that dont light up ?
Alots of the users who complain about LED control are complaining about buttons that do have LED control already. I think there might be some buttons in the top left corner of the VCI that dont light, i need to test that.

Those used to load tracks in deck A and B by default for example.
EDIT: Those buttons actually do light up. The Preview button in between doesn’t apparently.

@BentoSan

I leave it in master mode then the middle buttons are sending out midi messages that arnt shared by other knobs on the device.

Is that true? Should have found that out earlier…

Thanks BentoSan for hitting me in the face with some nice facts, those where the things I wanted to hear. Wish me luck with the rotaries
I ordered the Reloop already and I’m expecting it soon so it’s too late to cancel that.

To make things clear. I don’t hate the vci-100. I’m just trying to understand why everybody loves it so much while I’m not entirely thrilled.

I am also nowhere near a professional DJ, I just like doing it and felt like trying something new. Well see how things go…

[mekon_ca]

And I am just kidding

[Guust-Fi]

A little bit later than expected but my Reloop Digital Jockey has just been delivered.
I’m pretty pleased with it actually. It’s bigger than I thought.

So now I have both the vci-100 and the digital jockey until I decide to sell one of them.

If you have questions, shoot.

[Julio]

Very interesting thread… Will keep my posture for myself though…

[tekki]

Guust any first thoughts on Vestax VCI vs Reloop Digital Jockey?

[BentoSan]

No device is perfect, its really a matter of what you are willing to live without.

It is really best pairing these devices with another midi control to fill in the blanks that are missing.

[Guust-Fi]

The unit seems pretty solid. It doesn’t seem like I’m losing a lot of the build quality vs. the vci-100 at all.
I’m really liking the extra buttons and knobs.
The rotaries are kind of what I thought, they don’t always perform how I expected though. I’ll have to play around with them a little more. Perhaps I should try out Ableton.
At this moment I’d rather keep the Reloop.

If you want I could post a decent comparison between the 2 with pictures.

[tekki]

Adding to BentoSan:
IDD, you might look into the possibility of adding other controllertypes instead of comparing one dual jog controller with the other.

And comparison is always great, please post?

[franci_rod]

Hi guys, newbie here. not sure if this is the right thread to post but I’ll shoot anyways. Been wanting to get the Reloop Digital Jockey IE but I’m just not sure where to get one. I live here in Singapore and from the websites that I have gone to, there seems to be no distributors/retailers around. To Reloop owners out there, any suggestions?? Thanks!

[wolka]

@Guust-Fi

If you want I could post a decent comparison between the 2 with pictures.

It would be perfect if you do this!!!

[BentoSan]

@Guust-Fi

The rotaries are kind of what I thought, they don’t always perform how I expected though. I’ll have to play around with them a little more. Perhaps I should try out Ableton.

Ableton isnt going to “fix” the rotaries - that just how rotaries feel, pretty damn horrible.

[Guust-Fi]

I I’m kind of busy at the moment but I’ve been asked for a more in depth comparison against the vci-100.

To satisfy your needs for a while:
All imho…

Reloop:
good

• Allows for very advanced control over the entire traktor software due to rotaries.
• Full control over A and B effects
• Big knobs for each “mini” knob on the vestax (headphone volume etc…)
• More buttons and knobs
• Only 2 different colors (orange and green - too much colors on vestax)
• black controller + white text (looks best imo for this type of device + best visibility)
• more pioneer like knobs
• 14bit resolution → more precision with tempo faders
  They are still to short though and with traktor you might end up using them for something else than the tempo. In that case the resistance of tempo faders could be a drawback.
• German build quality?

bad

• Rotaries do not offer the delicate control of a regular analog knob. E.g. you cannot control the pitch in a continuous way. Only in increments (which can be made very small if you like). With small increments you have to turn the knob a lot though. You cannot turn it to 100% in one turn…
• Would like to see feedback with leds on the controller like on the bcr2000 for example
  http://herr-z-berger.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/em_bhr-bcr2000_web.gif
• Rotaries not arranged in a row of 4
• The knob that are pushable don’t feel as sturdy as the non-pushable ones (which is kind of normal I guess).
• Bigger an lighter than vestax
• no touch sensitive jogs
• as said above… rotaries don’t feel very good. I think I’d rather live with that and enjoy their advantages… haven’t had the chance to play around with rotaries in higher price class…

Vestax:
good

• weighs more
• fits into regular backpack (can’t fit reloop in mine)
• best for more traditional mixing
• touch sensitive jogs (important for releasing tracks vinyl style and scratching)

bad

• no rotaries
• controlling effects awkward unless used like in ean’s setup with 2 effect knobs/deck
• to expensive for what it is imo.

I stopped using the vestax, I am going to sell it. The only thing a would like is some “rotaries” that don’t operate in steps but like a standard analog knob.
Build quality shouldn’t be a discussion point considering the price imo.

[Guust-Fi]

@BentoSan

Ableton isnt going to “fix” the rotaries - that just how rotaries feel, pretty damn horrible.

I wasn’t talking about the feel (do agree though). The issue was something like traktor skipping or not detecting a single increment or something like that…
Don’t remember exactly.

[olafmol]

@Guust-Fi

bad

• Rotaries do not offer the delicate control of a regular analog knob. E.g. you cannot control the pitch in a continuous way. Only in increments (which can be made very small if you like). With small increments you have to turn the knob a lot though. You cannot turn it to 100% in one turn…

you mean that the endless encoders are stepped?

[Guust-Fi]

@olafmol

you mean that the endless encoders are stepped?

Yes indeed. I don’t know if this is also so on Xone devices for example?
The steps do offer some advantages. For example moving loops by 1 bar at a time or changing the delay time etc.
They don’t lend very well for other stuff such as changing key or reverb size.
The fact that they are endless on the other hand allows you to map as many functions as you want to a single knob without worrying about (soft)takeover etc. because they operate in a relative manner… which is what I like about the rotaries.

[DJ_Lobo]

Hey there guust. i am new to DTT and first off i want to say thank you for your info on the Reloop DJ. i have been looking and comparing it to the VCi-100 and you have made my decision clearer on buying the Reloop IE. i am currently running traktor pro version 1.0.1 on windows Xp SP3, and before i order it, i’d like to know if the Reloop IE is already mapped for this version of traktor pro ?. if not, do you have the map and tks files for it.? and lastly do you have a video of it in action, i live in the US and have not been able to find any videos of this controller in action, or any other usefull information. if you like you can email me any info you don’t want to post on here. crazymdj2@msn.com .. thanx again for your help..