http://www.ableton.com/movies?type=tutorials
It's the video on the top of the page, the Schwarzonator.
Unbelievable to say the least, will totally change the game for the better me thinks if more people start to catch on to it.
Looking into getting Live 8 and Max for Live now as we speak.
so you can play cords without know squat about playing them...I LOVE IT!
Chords and scales
just watched it half cause i'm really tired:
at first glance it's quite nice, but i was quite dissapointed, cause now every baby can press buttons and it sounds nice. no more musical skill.
gonna watch this 2morrow morning ;)
But that's the beauty of it, once again the playing field is being leveled even more and now more people can be creative without have to take the time and effort to learn music theory.
I know a number of world class musicians, they are simply amazing at what they do, but they are not creative in the least bit oddly enough.
Just because you are one doesn't mean you're another.
Music theory is not a road map to creativity. It is a tool used by musicians to be able to talk about something, kinda like a language. Using this language, music can be dissected to be able to look at the parts and discus them. And unlike science, the music can be reconstructed using the same tools! But that isn't creative...
Creativity is another thing all together, but when you can creatively use music theory, the world is your oyster.
Phil (who is feeling philosophical...no pun intended).
I like how his interview was basically him saying, "well…i always wanted to make music, but i was never willing to put in the time or effort to do it…so thankfully there's a magical computer thing that i sorta-kinda helped write so that I don't have to."
Come on.
It's not hard to learn fingering for an instrument.
At least his live music sucks (at least, for the part of the video i watched).
Some people would rather focus on the creative aspect of music instead of taking the time to learn an instrument. His DJing and live performances are top notch as well and his productions and remixes are instant classics and ooze quality.
One of my favs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KacsU8YCwXk
I don't understand why you have the need to attack him though, we're not discussing him but the patch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mostapha
oh god, as if musicians who play acoustic instruments dont make similar generalized statements about dj's. where is your objectivity? the name of the game is having fun with sound - dont be such a ponce.
This will open up a few doors for people that always 'heard' the music in their head but never knew to to technically play them. Its going to be interesting what people are going to come up with.
I cant really see this being groundbreaking really. If you can't tell what sounds good by your own ears then more often then not other aspects of your production would sound bad wouldnt it?
I actually like these responses. Interesting.
But, idk…there's a difference between "i'm not a good player, so I use quantize and edit things," and what he seemed to be saying, "i want to learn to play music without learning to play an instrument." That sounds dumb to me, especially when Live has pretty good midi authoring. If he can read a grid, he can make music in Live without ever touching an instrument. If he can write sheet music and spends a bit more money, he can go that route too.
If he wants to play a keyboard live, he should probably go to a yamaha school for a couple weeks.
The patch seems like auto-tune for keyboardists, which is funny 'cuz Live already had Scale and Chord devices to do something similar.
Scale sits between a midi input and a synth and forces you to play a specific scale by modifying what the keys do. For example, if you only wanted to play a pentatonic scale, you could make the first 5 white keys play the notes of 1 octave of the pentatonic and the rest don't do anything (in case you bump them).
Chord sits in the same place and turns a single note into a chord, so–for example–you could play G C D over and over again while it uses dummy clips to turn it into the chords that have made up most of rock since it started.
But there's also the networking aspect of the patch, where it can send that information to other laptops, and it will correct a key input if hit a wrong note, instead of not playing anything.
I understand Ableton has those plugins,but this one combines them in a more user friendly and intuitive way, plus you don't need to understand music to use this patch, unlike the other two where you need to have some understanding to realize what you're getting out of them.
That's actually the sole reason I hate the new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephew
That's kind of like you saying you hate a painter or writer because they've never had any formal training, and yet they are capable of creating amazing works of art.
None of these guys are claiming to be world class pianists, all they want to do is create music for people move and groove too. Where's the hard in that really? And if there's a tool that allows them to accomplish their vision then they'd be a fool not use it.
If they're capable of creating amazing works of art, either they've had some kind of training or they're a prodigy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephew
In the music world…if you can entertain people either you've had some kind of training or you're a prodigy.
The visual art analogy to this plugin isn't someone who accidentally makes a masterpiece…the proper analogy is a canvas that forces you to balance your composition, forces you to use deep structure tropes, forces you to choose appropriate colors, and modifies what you're actually making the brush do when you're going to violate one of the rules.
Besides…if you can hear music in your head, the fingering technique you'd need to play it on a sequencer takes almost no time to learn.
i think its great.. in a way he is being creative and musical by improving his instrument! and in dance music its all about work flow.. the quicker you get your IDEA down.. the better it usually sounds in the end! its all good to have trained fingers.. but i am sure his ears are much more in tune with things, and thats what counts!
you can say the same about digital dj'in and beat grids compared to vinyl or cdj's and beat matching yourself... you got more time and freedom to be creative.. i think some peoiple gotta relax sometimes haha
There's nothing creative about beat matching.
There is something creative about learning scales and learning when you should ignore them…when to use the notes that aren't there.
You'll never figure that out if you're using a plugin to do your theory for you.
you can apply what you jsut said about scales to beat matching and phasing... especialy with vinyl.. if its out of key most of the time it'll sound like shit.. jsut like if you use the wrong keys it'll sound like shit...
first off, i'm all for people learning music theory...why not? more knowledge, more power to you..Quote:
Originally Posted by mostapha
you do have an interesting point...
...but lets flip the analogy.... think about people that use drum machines vs people that use real drums.
with a drum machine, you're using your two hands... while a real drummer uses his feet as well.
the real drummer can say... "but you'll never understand how it feels to hit a snare with a real drum stick...yadda yadda yadda.."
i dont think the audience and listeners would care much in the end, if the song was made on a drum machine or a real set of drums as long as the song/beat sounds good.
or simply put... "in the end...as long as the beat/song sounds good, what does it matter if a patch was used?..."
thats like someone going up to all the people that produce using computers and saying... "you aint a real musician.. you're using computers to do all your work, go pick up a real guitar and play it"
i did play the guitar.......using my midi keyboard... :P
my2cents..
just make music.............. and make it sound good.
"The visual art analogy to this plugin isn't someone who accidentally makes a masterpiece…the proper analogy is a canvas that forces you to balance your composition, forces you to use deep structure tropes, forces you to choose appropriate colors, and modifies what you're actually making the brush do when you're going to violate one of the rules. "
Mostapha I don't think you could be farther from the truth although we are all entitled to our opinion. I believe we all make electronic music here so it is safe to say even though our styles may differ the overall process is similar. A riff is just that a riff. Do you play all your own drum samples? Have you never sampled anything? Don't get me wrong I know how to play and I don't use this technology but I have nothing against anyone doing it. The "balance" and "composition" are personified by the mix, the sequence and the automation of fx not a riff in the song. I would much rather listen to music that has been mixed,arranged and affected properly. It sounds like you might be a little intimidated by this....at the end of the day anything that can further the progression of electronic music will give it more buzz therefore generating more potential dollars for all of us to fight over...lol...Its just a time saver...don't be bitter that you spent all those hours learning your scales. People who know Latin have a much better understanding of the English language
Not really. Beat matching is perfectly regimented…scales are not. Beat matching also has nothing to do with keys or phrasing, one of which is more important; the other is almost irrelevant. But I see your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by tpsowden
The difference is that a drum machine won't tell you, "no, the snare doesn't go there" or "you're using the wrong tom for that fill." You still have to know what you're doing, even if you can't do it live or even in real time.Quote:
Originally Posted by EYENSEE
If you can't play the physical instrument, there are a a LOT of other ways to get what's in your head into the computer.
My problem with it isn't even really that it's making it easier, it's because it's stifling the process of creatively breaking rules.
Imagine what would have happened to the last 100 years of music if those first few blues players hadn't been allowed to play tri-tones over seventh chords because their guitars wouldn't let them do it. There's no reason in theory that it should work at all, let alone convey the kind of emotion that it can.
I don't care if you're playing a guitar or a whole orchestra with a midi keyboard…but if you can't make the creative choice to do something, "wrong," then you're limiting your creativity.
And the last thing "we" as EDM producers, DJs, and fans need to do right now is limit peoples' creativity. Trance is completely stagnant because everyone's stuck in the post-2004 structure of multi-orgasmic anthems with very little substance. Prog House and to some extent Techno are picking up where it left off, but they've got their own problems. Recent Electro House songs all sound the same to me, and I'm pretty sure dubstep is just what happens when people who make drum & bass live in brixton for too long (kinda like what happened to Techno when Prodigy started hanging out there or Punk when the Clash did it).
It's all fun music, and I'm sure we all love it. My intention is not to indict the entire EDM scene, but I really do think that this software would hinder the people who could push the scene further by not allowing them to learn which rules to break.
Well…that's the point. I didn't spend hours learning sclaes…I just kinda picked it up after years of just kinda doing music. I'm not even very good at it. I play guitar, but I'm pretty lousy at it. I bang out parts on keyboards solely because I taught myself to do it when I was learning voice parts that I couldn't hear in my head just by looking at sheet music. I learned to site-read voice music by just doing it for a long-ass time. I never sat down and practiced scales except for the blues pentatonic the first week or two when I was learning guitar.Quote:
Originally Posted by grow
It's not that hard to learn. I don't see where the software saves enough time to warrant the creative expression that it takes away.
Also, I agree with you that the overall production of the song is probably more important to a lot of people, especially EDM geeks like us. But without a good melody and/or bassline, there are a lot of genres that just fall flat.
damn, now i got to spend 250eur on max for live :(
If your really that honest...lol...and this is the main reason you want max...I was telling a friend who can't play a lick about this as an alternative to max:
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/20...our-sequencer/
Haven't tried it but thought it might help. Cheers