If you were waiting for a reason to get Live 8 and Max for live, here it is

[grow]

"The visual art analogy to this plugin isn't someone who accidentally makes a masterpiece…the proper analogy is a canvas that forces you to balance your composition, forces you to use deep structure tropes, forces you to choose appropriate colors, and modifies what you're actually making the brush do when you're going to violate one of the rules. "

Mostapha I don't think you could be farther from the truth although we are all entitled to our opinion. I believe we all make electronic music here so it is safe to say even though our styles may differ the overall process is similar. A riff is just that a riff. Do you play all your own drum samples? Have you never sampled anything? Don't get me wrong I know how to play and I don't use this technology but I have nothing against anyone doing it. The "balance" and "composition" are personified by the mix, the sequence and the automation of fx not a riff in the song. I would much rather listen to music that has been mixed,arranged and affected properly. It sounds like you might be a little intimidated by this....at the end of the day anything that can further the progression of electronic music will give it more buzz therefore generating more potential dollars for all of us to fight over...lol...Its just a time saver...don't be bitter that you spent all those hours learning your scales. People who know Latin have a much better understanding of the English language

[mostapha]

you can apply what you jsut said about scales to beat matching and phasing... especialy with vinyl.. if its out of key most of the time it'll sound like shit.. jsut like if you use the wrong keys it'll sound like shit...

Not really. Beat matching is perfectly regimented…scales are not. Beat matching also has nothing to do with keys or phrasing, one of which is more important; the other is almost irrelevant. But I see your point.

first off, i'm all for people learning music theory...why not? more knowledge, more power to you..

you do have an interesting point...

...but lets flip the analogy.... think about people that use drum machines vs people that use real drums.

with a drum machine, you're using your two hands... while a real drummer uses his feet as well.

the real drummer can say... "but you'll never understand how it feels to hit a snare with a real drum stick...yadda yadda yadda.."

i dont think the audience and listeners would care much in the end, if the song was made on a drum machine or a real set of drums as long as the song/beat sounds good.

or simply put... "in the end...as long as the beat/song sounds good, what does it matter if a patch was used?..."

thats like someone going up to all the people that produce using computers and saying... "you aint a real musician.. you're using computers to do all your work, go pick up a real guitar and play it"

i did play the guitar.......using my midi keyboard... :P

my2cents..


just make music.............. and make it sound good.

The difference is that a drum machine won't tell you, "no, the snare doesn't go there" or "you're using the wrong tom for that fill." You still have to know what you're doing, even if you can't do it live or even in real time.

If you can't play the physical instrument, there are a a LOT of other ways to get what's in your head into the computer.

My problem with it isn't even really that it's making it easier, it's because it's stifling the process of creatively breaking rules.

Imagine what would have happened to the last 100 years of music if those first few blues players hadn't been allowed to play tri-tones over seventh chords because their guitars wouldn't let them do it. There's no reason in theory that it should work at all, let alone convey the kind of emotion that it can.

I don't care if you're playing a guitar or a whole orchestra with a midi keyboard…but if you can't make the creative choice to do something, "wrong," then you're limiting your creativity.

And the last thing "we" as EDM producers, DJs, and fans need to do right now is limit peoples' creativity. Trance is completely stagnant because everyone's stuck in the post-2004 structure of multi-orgasmic anthems with very little substance. Prog House and to some extent Techno are picking up where it left off, but they've got their own problems. Recent Electro House songs all sound the same to me, and I'm pretty sure dubstep is just what happens when people who make drum & bass live in brixton for too long (kinda like what happened to Techno when Prodigy started hanging out there or Punk when the Clash did it).

It's all fun music, and I'm sure we all love it. My intention is not to indict the entire EDM scene, but I really do think that this software would hinder the people who could push the scene further by not allowing them to learn which rules to break.

"The visual art analogy to this plugin isn't someone who accidentally makes a masterpiece…the proper analogy is a canvas that forces you to balance your composition, forces you to use deep structure tropes, forces you to choose appropriate colors, and modifies what you're actually making the brush do when you're going to violate one of the rules. "

I don't think you could be farther from the truth although we are all entitled to our opinion. I believe we all make electronic music here so it is safe to say even though our styles may differ the overall process is similar. A riff is just that a riff. Do you play all your own drum samples? Have you never sampled anything? Don't get me wrong I know how to play and I don't use this technology but I have nothing against anyone doing it. The "balance" and "composition" are personified by the mix, the sequence and the automation of fx not a riff in the song. I would much rather listen to music that has been mixed,arranged and affected properly. It sounds like you might be a little intimidated by this....at the end of the day anything that can further the progression of electronic music will give it more buzz therefore generating more potential dollars for all of us to fight over...lol...Its just a time saver...don't be bitter that you spent all those hours learning your scales. People who know Latin have a much better understanding of the English language

Well…that's the point. I didn't spend hours learning sclaes…I just kinda picked it up after years of just kinda doing music. I'm not even very good at it. I play guitar, but I'm pretty lousy at it. I bang out parts on keyboards solely because I taught myself to do it when I was learning voice parts that I couldn't hear in my head just by looking at sheet music. I learned to site-read voice music by just doing it for a long-ass time. I never sat down and practiced scales except for the blues pentatonic the first week or two when I was learning guitar.

It's not that hard to learn. I don't see where the software saves enough time to warrant the creative expression that it takes away.

Also, I agree with you that the overall production of the song is probably more important to a lot of people, especially EDM geeks like us. But without a good melody and/or bassline, there are a lot of genres that just fall flat.

[illstep]

damn, now i got to spend 250eur on max for live

[grow]

If your really that honest...lol...and this is the main reason you want max...I was telling a friend who can't play a lick about this as an alternative to max:
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/20...our-sequencer/


Haven't tried it but thought it might help. Cheers