TSI Tricking...Anyone have tips!?!

OK so I am currently in the process of getting rid of the loop recorder fuctions. So far I have been able to disable the record button , the play button and the undo button. When I get to the size button I have an issue. I am able to have have traktor reset it to 4 everytime which is fine but I can't seem to get the LED state to off. Does anyone have any tips? I really do not use the loop recorder ever and would like to take use of this for effect control, maybe even a handicap superknob if possible. It also seems like a cool place to add freeze buttons for each deck.

I am also working with Haze on getting a cool TSI going. So far I have taken the third parameter knob and button of effect unit 1 and 2 and used it to control 3 chained effects in units 3 and 4. I used armyofme's combo for the swoosh. I will share once I get ahead a bit more. I think the goal is to use the dry/wet buttons in chained mode as a shift that would then load presets into effect units 3 and 4 using the buttons under each parameter.

Please add to this, lets get the ideas flowing on a community tsi.

I'm in.

Will work on it some more tonight. For some SUPER knobs.

But for real --- does anyone use the loop recorder? I've never turned it on. Can someone explain what it does. If not - the loop recorder goes and turns in to a super knob with 4 presets!

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Originally Posted by haze324

I'm in.

Will work on it some more tonight. For some SUPER knobs.

But for real --- does anyone use the loop recorder? I've never turned it on. Can someone explain what it does. If not - the loop recorder goes and turns in to a super knob with 4 presets!

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I learned about it in Ean's tutorial that came with the S4 (if you bought it from DJTT).

It can record 4, 16, 32 beat samples. On the software interface where Record is you can select three setting 1) Mix - records everything playing 2) Cue, records whatever is cued 3) Aux - records what every is being feed in from outside (remember the video with Shiftee recording his voice). The dry/wet knob (hardware) right above the Size, Undo, Rec, Play buttons is actually like a source knob. Turn left to record (Cue) all sources on the left, turn right for right and middle to record whatever is cued on both decks. After you have recorded it you can drag the sample into the sample deck and save it. It is kind of neat.

Thanks for the input man. Yeah I've got the video but shouldve payed better attention to it. I personally see that function as very useful as something I could use to prep samples ahead of time. I don't think i'd use it on the fly though.

Talking to Bigbeatzz earlier I think we're try to use the loop recorder knob as Super Knob and use the buttons as four pre-set effects. Perhaps 1 advanced effect and 3 in chained. One concern we have right now is making sure we have proper LED feedback from the buttons when a set of effects is selected and turned on. The idea of having a massive super delay at the twist of a knob is something I think for my style of play I'd use more that recording a loop on the fly.

Curious though, when I want to save a recorded loop. From the software i drag the loop recorder itself into a sample bank and hit play a few times and now it's saved to use later on? I should re-watch that portion of the video.

Thanks man.

Yeah, drag it into a sample deck. If you have kept the default favorites, there is one called All Samples (or you could look in All Tracks). The recorded sample is called "Loop Recorder XXXX/XX/XX XX:XX:XX" X being date and time it was created.

I have only used the loop recorder for splicing together vocals (prep work).

I like your idea of the super knob. Keep me posted. I wish I could help out, but mapping is not my strong suit. I need to spend some time with the Traktor Bible.

the loop deck I understand but don't get why I would want to do that IE make a loop on the fly, add over it then put it in a sample slot. How is that musically useful?

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Originally Posted by stphotog

the loop deck I understand but don't get why I would want to do that IE make a loop on the fly, add over it then put it in a sample slot. How is that musically useful?

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Yep. Now I don't feel so musically or techy retarded for wanting to turn that thing into a superknob with 4 preset effects.

Keep you guys posted as BigBeatz and I make some progress. Will probably have a few questions along the way. Like ideas for 4 good presets ideas
:D

Does anyone know how I can disable the LED from the size button in the loop recorder? Is there a way to reverse the mapping of the button?

Nope I think you can't (tried to so it's only experience but I may always be wrong so).
The best bet you may have if you want to use it to reflect an on/off state is may be to use a beat phase monitor output* (as it takes over in a way) and a toggling modifier to reflect the command on it.
It won't be perfect but if it blinks, you are on your 'on' (M=1) state, if it doesn't blink: 'off' state (M=0) (but may be lit as you didn't suppress the native led feedback for the size).
You can duplicate the beat phase monitor output four times, each one assigned to a deck so you maximise the existence of the signal (as long as there's a track playing).

Does that make sense?

*with its flaws

ps: as a personal opinion only, it's just for sharing a thought: I don't understand why you try to get rid of the loop recorder in a way - even to assign eventually some FX on it - it is really less interesting in what the LR can do for you. I've only scratched it myself and don't pretend at all to understand all the potential use of it but that's a very unique feature. I want to pass more time on it, I don't want to miss something that would be worth studying.

From a FX point of view, it allows to modulate your own Fx, combos, whatever, edit, add, remove, repeat, dub and modulate those on the fly in a perfect time frame for a given sequence. No other super knob can do that.
What do you think?

Thanks Yul I'm going to try that. Right now I have set all 4 buttons as master tempo led outputs. I set the midi range to 127 min 127 max. This will give me a steady on light (at least I can see them in the dark) but they occasionally glitch (they very quickly turn off and back on once in a while). I think the glitch is due to the main TSI trying to take over.

I'll try your method in the morning, I did attempt to map the beat phase to the buttons and they did blink but I was just not sure how to hold a steady light. How would I set the modifiers correctly?

I have attached my TSI in progress if you'd like to take a look. Right now the size button and the undo button trigger effects in units 3 and 4. The dry/wet controls the parameters.

Thanks again for the help!

I've added 'post scriptum' while you were reading the post, have a look.


I don't know if you can get a steady light with the beat phase monitor, never occurred to me and never had the need. I'll be interested to know generally speaking and if that works too on the S4.

The loop recorder was origionally concieved so you could play a cue point juggle, or some other performance(fx play, etc.), record it on the fly and perform on top of it lopping. I don't think they really planned it as being a sample maker, but it works good for this also.

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Originally Posted by Yul

ps: as a personal opinion only, it's just for sharing a thought: I don't understand why you try to get rid of the loop recorder in a way - even to assign eventually some FX on it - it is really less interesting in what the LR can do for you. I've only scratched it myself and don't pretend at all to understand all the potential use of it but that's a very unique feature. I want to pass more time on it, I don't want to miss something that would be worth studying.

From a FX point of view, it allows to modulate your own Fx, combos, whatever, edit, add, remove, repeat, dub and modulate those on the fly in a perfect time frame for a given sequence. No other super knob can do that.
What do you think?

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Hmm...maybe you have a point. Although I must say having cool effects in that middle section is very handy if you are on the faders or filtering. Maybe I am going to have to work on a super tsi that fits my needs for the x1.

This has been a great learning process, I appreciate you help!!! =)

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Originally Posted by Yul

I don't know if you can get a steady light with the beat phase monitor, never occurred to me and never had the need. I'll be interested to know generally speaking and if that works too on the S4.

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Yul thanks for your tips.

I mapped the undo button to beat phase monitor and did what Bigbeatzz did and put midi at 127 and 127 and it gives me as solid light that doesn't flicker like master does -- sweet!. So then I tried to make it where it was flashing when off and solid when on. I set that as beat phase monitor with midi at 0 and 127. It flashes like this with no issues. But when I try to use a modifer for when it's pressed the light just stays solid all the time. I put a modifier of M=1 when the button is presses. So I put flashing only happens when M=0 and solid happens when M=1 but it didn't work. This would work great if would tell which button was pressed because it was flashing.

I attached the .TSI for anyone who wants to check it out. If you press UNDO under the LR it will load an effect preset to effects 2 and 4. Hold shift on the DECK you would like to use it on and press undo again. It will then assign the effect to the deck of the shift you were pressing. Then turn the LR knob and crank! :eek:

If I understand correctly what you're saying, that's why I think a steady light isn't desirable here as you won't be able to 'cover' the led feedback from the LR. Use the beat phase monitor normally (blinking). It blinks, you're 'on', it doesn't you're 'off'. I don't see how that could be done differently.
I once reproduced the path/flow of leds for the LR within a custom mapping (without the embedded mapping) and it's already a bit complex to do perfectly. And I'm pretty sure that even with setting the same path to counter the native led feedback won't work even with output commands trying to negate the light. Only solution I found was the beat phase monitor.


As for putting super knobs somewhere, I suggest (once again that's only a thought), they would better positioned on the FX knobs themselves. As a quick idea: your super knob(s) would probably be some chained FX in group mode right. So don't use 4 FX units, it lessens the difficulty of a potential mapping.
When in group mode, the first button (hardware: fx on/off) doesn' have a function even with shift. Create your super knobs on the Fx unit's knobs when 'fx panel mode=0' and create a modifier that would toggle on and off your super knobs' state on this button.
The only thing to follow here is you need to set a super knob depending on the knob you're using: for the D/W knob your first super knob should act on the D/W, for the second super knob (on the 1st parameter knob on the unit) it should act a t least on the 1st fx and the button under it shall at least engage on/off the 1st fx, etc, etc...
I think that's how I'll try.

You keep the loop recorder, you have your FX unit doubled with super knobs eventually, you only use two units so it eases the mapping process. I think that would work.
Any thought?

Yul great ideas. I could see some creative uses here for folks to map some neat FX’s within the native mapping. Here are some thoughts back at you.

LED’s – I initially tried to do it the way you described. Off = no lights. On = blinking. No luck. Beat Phase Monitor flashes at all times (or stays lit if I change it to 127/127). The way I mapped it was Modifier 8 (M8) I used that modifier as the undo button and put the value to =1. So M8=1 is undo. I put beat phase monitor to flash when M8=1 and it just flashes all the time.

Ok so using the FX banks. This could work and work great. One of the issues I have is finding the best way to assign the FX banks to a deck and still have visual output on the controller and not the screen. I think pressing the on/off button could be it as I still have the standard deck assignment buttons by the gain encoders. The challenge we have is what button to use as the “preset” to load and turn on the effects. I’m guessing if I use a 1st FX button to load it already works to turn on the effect in the native mapping so it does not conflict. Plan is to use one bank in chained and the other in advanced. So that would give me three preset’s from the chained FX section. Would be sweet if I turn on the on/off button and the three FX buttons would flash in beatsync signaling we’re in FX Super Knob mode.

In fact as I write this I may use the on/off button to toggle “on” Super Knob mode and use the LR knob in the center for the knob itself (just easy to use because of location) and when I toggle off the on/off button the LR will be back in place.

There’s a few possibilities here.

Haze at least we now has steady on lights...Thats extremely helpful. I need to more combos for my knobs. I need a delay build up and 1 super chopper thing.

Anyone have some combo's for me to try, I will post up the TSI once it's done. I have attached my last attempt, the only thing different from the previous version is that the lights are now steady on with no glitches. Size and Undo are preloaded at the moment, all you need is to have your effects set to 4 units.

@ Yul...I don't think I'm going to miss the loop recorder, the way it works now is way more suited to my style. 2 or 3 decks and some dope effects suits me just fine.

Also @ Yul...You are a guru! Thanks for the great help on this and all your other posts.

you're welcome, I'm learning too.

I'm thinking in terms of only two fx banks here.
The best led feedback you can get to see you're on a super knob mode, is to assign the beat phase monitor to the on/off button (unused on group mode), toggling 0 to 1, blinking when 1. Add the modifier to be reset to 0 if you press the fx mode button so you don't have to keep exclusively this custom mode. You can also take advantage of the Fx panel mode modifier to refine your mapping here I guess.

For presets I already posted a method to get more presets, did you have a look at it previously (I need to correct it by the way)? You can select rapidly fx if you add the shift to the knob as a method of selection (quicker and better than having to press shift+ one of the button), and still be able to call the presets by using shift +one of the button if you follow what I have suggested for the method.

If you're not using combos that use two FX units, it's not really worth using 4 Fx units on what you want to do. A personal opinion only. Better keep two fx units, have all int he same and logic place, still have the two assign buttons for each decks, be able to switch each unit from group/advanced/superknob modes AND performance wise, it's cool to have a combo on fx unit 1 and flavor it with an advanced fx on unit 2. A sweep then cut with the gater for example. If you can do exactly what you need without adding more complexity the better (and just for the sake of not loosing control of units 1&2 if you switch deck layers).


(by the way if you (re) watch the video below, you'll see how I make use of the beat phase monitor to get some more led feedback from my set up of things).

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LED’s – I initially tried to do it the way you described. Off = no lights. On = blinking. No luck. Beat Phase Monitor flashes at all times (or stays lit if I change it to 127/127). The way I mapped it was Modifier 8 (M8) I used that modifier as the undo button and put the value to =1. So M8=1 is undo. I put beat phase monitor to flash when M8=1 and it just flashes all the time.

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A guess and needs to be tried, you may need to cover all events here, so you need to have set a output function when M8=0. But it won't replace the native led feedback if the events from the loop recorder happen (hence blink/no blink suggestion).


Sorry it's all only thinking, I didn't have a look at the tsi.

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@ Yul...I don't think I'm going to miss the loop recorder, the way it works now is way more suited to my style. 2 or 3 decks and some dope effects suits me just fine.

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As said, just a thought only, I don't pretend to tell you what would best suit you. It was a way of saying, that you can do exactly what you want (add super knobs) AND keep the LR.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze2j3g5Bxiw
On group mode, the beat phase monitor blinks on the on/off button (to show me a specific function I added there).
On advanced mode, it blinks on the reset button (to remind me to be very careful when touching this button).
I'm using 4 fx units because I do use automatic combos implying two fx units so I lost one of the two FX assign buttons for each deck, I've added a call to an instant FX there, it blinks when pushed/hold.

nevermind. I figured it out.

Yul. Thanks for the tips again man. I'm gonna owe you a drink by the time this is finished. I think i've got a sweet idea for this to work.

:D

Super Knobs on the S4 here we come.

Bigbeatzz....your a gangsta bro.

Without going too deep in my try, I've just made something as I wrote:

On group mode, I used the fx on/off button to enter a super knob state, shown by a blinked led. You go out of the mode either by pressing it again or changing the unit from group to advanced.
I created three super knobs presets all called by shift + one of the three fx parameters buttons (the native preset is made by shift + fx on/off so I don't touch that).

First button engages all three FX, the knob itself control all parameters are once.
Did the same for the other two other knobs just carefully choosing the combo so the second knob use a combo that moves at least the second parameter, and the third combo at least move the third parameter (for the rest it's up to you and the choice of your combo).

Benefits:
all in one logic place
clear led feedback
each unit can be switched between three modes one being a super knob mode with three super knobs (didn't do it for the d/w knob as you may want to have this control separated for your combo or because I did use the underlying button to enter the mode).
you keep the native preset for group mode
you don't have to use 4 fx units
you keep the two assign FX buttons
you keep control over the two fx units even if you switch deck layers
easy to set up without getting rid of the LR (and not being obliged to try to counter everything).

what do you think, isn't that what you wanted to do in the first place?

Sweet. I just made something similar. There's an LED concern I may just have to live with.

- Created Toggle with the fx On/off button - it flashes when on (beat phase)
- When "on" all three fx buttons also flash and are presets
- when "on" the loop recorder knob controls D/W and parameters for the effects
- when "off" loop recorder works as is
- when "off" effects function as normal

I have three presets all controlled by the LR knob. With effects 1 and 2 so I can use the assign buttons as is.

Only issue I would love to fix is when I toggle super knob mode on ---- all the buttons flash. When I select a preset it would be great if that buttons stayed on, so I would know which preset then turns them off.

I could probably do this by turning off the flashing buttons.....but hey, they look cool
:)

The other way we were doing it has much less control over and LED feedback, it's just a quick easy knob to turn that is always set and ready to fire off. I could see the benefit both ways.

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Only issue I would love to fix is when I toggle super knob mode on ---- all the buttons flash. When I select a preset it would be great if that buttons stayed on, so I would know which preset then turns them off.

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if you're talking about the 3 fx buttons, do the opposite, see that each preset is a state in itself (so you create accordingly a modifier and its behaviour so it has a value of either 0,1,2,3 respectively for non super mode state, preset 1, preset 2, preset 3).

Now you have all the elements that you need to make the leds to work (ie, the modifier that engages your super knob mode - considering it can only exist when in group mode - and the three different state.
You create something that would work like that:
1st preset: 1st button on (the native on/off led feedback), 2nd blinks, 3rd blinks
2st preset: 1st button blinks, 2nd button native, 3rd button blinks
3rd preset: 1st button blinks, 2nd button blinks, 3rd button native
To achieve that you create all potential events for each buttons if you know what I mean.


That put aside, just a 'performance' tip (I'm writing that like I have a huge experience, which is just not the case): if you do get rid in the end of the loop recorder, it means you can use the footswitch for something else: in this case having one fx unit( when using 4 units) assigned to all 4 decks (to reproduce an assignment to the master) loaded with an expression FX (delay, reverb, flanger, whatever) that you could activate instantly with your foot (like an expression pedal for guitar really) is a simple but very effective tool to have.
Anyway, you're on your way. I really appreciate the discussion as I appreciate you dug into it by yourself, I like this process and want to thank you for that.

This has been an awesome learning process for Haze and I. We have about a gazillion emails going back and forth with our test TSI's. I worked every free minute of the weekend and so far I am sticking with the LR area just because I am in so deep (LOLZ, trying to juggle my family in between ).

So far I have 3 effect combos working but I am having some problems with the on off of the effect combos . I find that toggles will not work properly in this case and I may need to figure a way to do direct mode. The issue I have is how do I get all the effects to sync up on the ON state when using toggle OR how to I turn the effects off is using direct buttons. I was going to sacrifice the Undo button to reset effect units 3 and 4, it has a big X on it and seems like the most logical spot if I needed to do something like that.

I changed it a bit from my previous attempts in that effect unit 3 is always advanced and effect unit 4 is chained. I have attached my latest work for anyone to add on to or use for learning. As said before, thanks for the help. At this point my wife is looking at me like I am trying to control the universe from 4 buttons and a knob.

EDIT: I also noticed the ! icon is flashing on the unit every once and a while...could this be because of the button conflicts with the original mapping?

Bigbeatzz....we're close brother.

Yul:
"1st preset: 1st button on (the native on/off led feedback), 2nd blinks, 3rd blinks"

Yes this is what I'm trying to get at. What described above I understand, just never done it so have to try a few trial and error ways to set different states. I've got the shift function done for toggle into preset mode, last one I need is for the LED. I was hoping the on/off function for each button would override the user mapping and just turn on. No luck though.

I'm guessing this method would also work for Bigbeatz using the four buttons in the center of the LR, if one of the states was to cancel out the native functions. That would be neat as well. Hit the "superknob" on button and the center lights of the LR would start flashing and go from there. One of the buttons could then be Bigbeatzz "reset" button in that state.

Just now have to figure out the M=0, M=1, M=2, etc.
where does this modifier go?

cool, what а nice thread I just found :)

I'm in a place with almost no internet and am offline most of the time. Being offline has it's good parts too - i somehow figured out most of what you've typed and discussed here, during the last 2 days of S4 mapping madness. On monday, I used to be a complete mapping noob and now i can almost do voodoo ...

GREAT THANKS FOR YOU INSPIRATION! YOU GUYS ROCK!

When I reworked the Bigbeatzz SuperEffects 1.tsi, with the FX2 switch, it unlocked the door for many useful hacks. You may like some of them, so I'll share:

1. Shortcut for relative mode for timecode, using the opposite Shift+Play for A/B decks. The built-in Keylock is easy to disable, so I did. Have the mapping, if you're interested. I'm changing the Playback mode in reversed order - Rel->Abs->Int, although internal is automatically activated with the "Play" command.
2. A layout, deck size & flavor management with the two shifts and the Offset buttons. May not be the wisest use of the offset buttons, but I can now change C&D to all the deck types and sizes. This, in combination with the Layout shortcuts (Shift+Deck C/D) would likely be useful
3. A&B Wave zoom using Shift + The Loop size encoder. There's no built-in Shift+loopSize, so it was easy to setup.
4. Gain / Key / Pan on the Gain encoders using LShift for Key and RShift for Pan. This one is not working good and it's not very useful IMO. If there's a way to remap Shift + gain push to reset the knob, it'll be much better ... oh well, have to wait for NI.
5. Sample Filter & Volume control in place of FX1 for C and FX2 for D. I'm still working on this, but the approach used is the same as on the BigBeatzz enhanced SuperEffects, I uploaded yesterday. Already usable but need more work to make it more robust. I'm activating it with Shift+FX1/C and Shift+FX2/D. There's blinking feedback for entering the mode and solid led on the 4fx buttons indicating if the control is Filter or Volume.

#1-4 are fully operational and stable already. I want to prepare proper comments and will publish in a thread in the next days. If you want to take a look earlier, I could upload them for preliminary review here :)

#5 is very playable, especially the filters. When, ready it will become a complementary for the Super Effects mapping. Since it's the same mapping approach, it seems logical to be applied on sample decks C&D (or whatever)

... from the previous post ...
I've planned to complete the SE mapping, and the way I see it best is:
I. It will be with two independent pairs of units (4FX mode). One for the left side and for the right. Total of 6 preset sets using the M5=X modifier for layers/combo presets.
II. A/C's FX2 (B/D's FX1) button activates the original (almost) Bigbeatzz's SE mode (M5=1)
III. the on/off toggles second layer of combos (M5=2). It will first be only the Delay Freeze, but on FX3 in advanced mode. At this stage, I'll do it just to proof the concept, as wasting two FX units for a single advanced effect is too much, IMO. It's fine for the start, though.
IV. Shift+on/off brings in third layer/preset of combos (M5=3). No idea what fx presets I'd put yet, but the placeholder is planned. LED indication would probably go on the respective LOAD buttons.
V. Shift + A/C's FX2 (Shift+B/D's FX1) will assign the channel to the opposite side effects pair. That will be useful to have e.g. C on left side FX pair and A on the right pair. That'll be M5=4 & M6=1/0, so that FX units takeover would work properly. Of coursе, there's the limitation that the opposite side FX pair has to be prepared and waiting for the audio feed (have a plan for doing it). LED feedback will be beat monitor on the channel LED (the one above the channel fader)
VI. Shift +A's FX1 (B's FX2) will open for a 3 new layers of FX combos as in #II, III & IV (M5=5,6,7). LED indication is straight forward, as in the first three presets.
VII. Shift + C's FX1 (D's FX2) will release the channels's FX assignment for the Sample's Filter & Volume control mapping. Even if you loose one of the sides for FX, you can still assign the channel to the FX pair on the opposite side using the #VI trick :)

This whole thing may seem complex, but it's not actually. It's a repeatable sequence of an already stable and robust approach. Adding the knobs&buttons control with the proper M5 condition and it's all good. It'll become a large TSI, though.

Guys, I'm really thankful that you are here (there) and there's someone to get inspiration from and with whom to share :)

Cheers!

We've created a monster! LOL, good work loop!

hhahahahaah!!!!

you lost me at Shift + square root of modifier 9
=O

Go get'em Loop! Once you have it to meet your own workflow you'll enjoy it that much more.

LOL, I finally feel like I've planted a soul into the S4!