HELP!!! Incorporating Ableton into my setup on a second computer!!!

Hello Chaps...

I use Traktor Scratch Pro 2.5 on a Macbook with my decks (control vinyl & CD's) and a Denon DN-X1600, what I am looking to do is incorporate Ableton into my setup on my Windows 7 Laptop.

My main question here is this...

Can I use my Denon DN-X1600 to sync Ableton to Traktor using the V-Link (5 pin DIN midi output) capability?

Looking at various websites, the more traditional method is to use a Midi Interface but before I go and get one, I want to see if this will work first!

If this method will not be possible, can somebody please explain to me exactly how to do it, in regards to what equipment I will need to buy (any good value suggestions will be greatly appreciated!) and how it actually works?

I know I'm asking a lot here, but I know that you guys on here really know what you're talking about when it comes to this kind of thing and as I'm a bit old skool, I really need the help!!!

Thanks in advance guys!!!

Cheers... Dan!!! :cool:

Why not use Traktor and Ableton on the same computer?

A MIDI interface would work well.

Initially I thought that but I'm looking at 4 decks running on Traktor and then using Ableton as a separate entity, I sometimes DJ with a friend and with this we can finally make it a 2 man job and go mental with it!!!

I want maximum flexibility, and I think that this is the way to achieve it!

Bumped!!!

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Originally Posted by botstein

Why not use Traktor and Ableton on the same computer?

A MIDI interface would work well.

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I love these comments. I believe the same way Richie Hawtin does.. same with Chris Leibing... Your show is a performance.

A) It looks alot more entertaining to see things happening all over the place, its a show

B) Screen Real estate, if you have to spend time alt tabbing windows, trying to get visual feedback, that puts you at risk of screen glare, and because of this 15 to 17 inch screen you will be constantly looking at it if you use ableton for anything other than a wet/dry send effects box.

C) I run 4 tracks of samples, Massives, FM8 and Maschine off of my Ableton Laptop. On the other is 4 traktor decks, both laptops run their interfaces at 96 samples. With a few instances of massive, an FM8 playing samples and also using the machine as a external fx send, the CPU can have constant activity (be it 15 to 30 percent). Id prefer to know that I have the lowest possible chance of drop outs when pushing the Ableton Laptop to its limits during a set.


All in all, I use no 3rd party applications (I dont install anything but music related software/files on my music machines) to route audio, one Midi cable, and push play on MIDI Clock.. To each their own I guess.



Big Dan as far as your question. You will also need a sound interface or a midi interface with MIDI IN (obviously) on the Ableton machine.

Go from MIDI Out on the Traktor Device to MIDI in on the Ableton Machine. In traktor make sure Send MIdi Clock is active. In the master clock section make sure Master and Auto are highlighted, and hit play, and tick. YOu should hear and audible tick from your traktor Machine (while monitoring or however you have it setup)

Then in Ableton to you need to make sure the MIDI Device recieving the singal has its Sync button on, in MIDI Sync in preferences. Within the main control surface you should click the "EXT" button top left ot receive external midi clock. Hit play with the metronome on, and this should give you an indication of how far off the sync is.

From here you need to go back into the MIDI Sync prefernce tab, and expand the device you are using to recieve the midi signal, there should be a few options, one being Sync Delay. You need to adjust this up or down and "beat match" your two metronomes from each machine. And Voila, you now have tempo synced laptops.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by balakoth

I love these comments. I believe the same way Richie Hawtin does.. same with Chris Leibing... Your show is a performance.

A) It looks alot more entertaining to see things happening all over the place, its a show

B) Screen Real estate, if you have to spend time alt tabbing windows, trying to get visual feedback, that puts you at risk of screen glare, and because of this 15 to 17 inch screen you will be constantly looking at it if you use ableton for anything other than a wet/dry send effects box.

C) I run 4 tracks of samples, Massives, FM8 and Maschine off of my Ableton Laptop. On the other is 4 traktor decks, both laptops run their interfaces at 96 samples. With a few instances of massive, an FM8 playing samples and also using the machine as a external fx send, the CPU can have constant activity (be it 15 to 30 percent). Id prefer to know that I have the lowest possible chance of drop outs when pushing the Ableton Laptop to its limits during a set.


All in all, I use no 3rd party applications (I dont install anything but music related software/files on my music machines) to route audio, one Midi cable, and push play on MIDI Clock.. To each their own I guess.



Big Dan as far as your question. You will also need a sound interface or a midi interface with MIDI IN (obviously) on the Ableton machine.

Go from MIDI Out on the Traktor Device to MIDI in on the Ableton Machine. In traktor make sure Send MIdi Clock is active. In the master clock section make sure Master and Auto are highlighted, and hit play, and tick. YOu should hear and audible tick from your traktor Machine (while monitoring or however you have it setup)

Then in Ableton to you need to make sure the MIDI Device recieving the singal has its Sync button on, in MIDI Sync in preferences. Within the main control surface you should click the "EXT" button top left ot receive external midi clock. Hit play with the metronome on, and this should give you an indication of how far off the sync is.

From here you need to go back into the MIDI Sync prefernce tab, and expand the device you are using to recieve the midi signal, there should be a few options, one being Sync Delay. You need to adjust this up or down and "beat match" your two metronomes from each machine. And Voila, you now have tempo synced laptops.

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Now we're getting somewhere!!!

I am using a Mac for Traktor with 4 decks using timecoded vinyl & CD's also a Denon DN-X1600 mixer (This has Midi out, but looks as though it can only be used for video purposes???)

I need to get the midi signal from either the Mac or the Denon mixer to the laptop, this is where I'm confused!!!

If I get the midi signal from the Mac, how is best to do it???

I thought that I could go from the Mac into a USB midi interface then route the signal out to the laptop via USB again, I've only got 2 USB ports on the Mac though, so I thought of using firewire, but midi interfaces with firewire seem to be expensive!!!

Either way I manage to do it, how then do I get the sound from Ableton on the laptop into the mix???

I'm going to upgrade my studio soon with some new monitors, I would need an external mixer for this due to my current configuration so, I then though I could have the sound from the laptop into one channel, decks into another channel then route the master out to both my sound system and my studio PC.

When you start wanting to get creative and add more equipment to your set up it gets really complicated and fries my brain!!!

It's got to be possible though hasn't it!!! :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by balakoth

I love these comments.

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Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by balakoth

A) It looks alot more entertaining to see things happening all over the place, its a show

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Between 2-4 turntables and 9+ controllers, I'm pretty all over the place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by balakoth

if you have to spend time alt tabbing windows, trying to get visual feedback,

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I really don't. Between the records and all of the controllers, I've got a lot of visual feedback.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by balakoth

that puts you at risk of screen glare, and because of this 15 to 17 inch screen you will be constantly looking at it if you use ableton for anything other than a wet/dry send effects box.

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Definitely not. That's what 6+ of my controllers are for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by balakoth

C) I run 4 tracks of samples, Massives, FM8 and Maschine off of my Ableton Laptop. On the other is 4 traktor decks, both laptops run their interfaces at 96 samples. With a few instances of massive, an FM8 playing samples and also using the machine as a external fx send, the CPU can have constant activity (be it 15 to 30 percent).

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This is your Asus? If I open all that stuff, I only get to 2-4%.

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Originally Posted by botstein

This is your Asus? If I open all that stuff, I only get to 2-4%.

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Try actually using those vsts you just loaded then... If you say you run 2 massives 2 fm8s FX Chains and Machine at 4 percent.. Youd just be lying. Or highly over exaggerating. Or they sit there idle.. whichever.. whatever.. Who cares.



Dan, your Denon is a sound interface, so its midi out should work fine with a midi patch cable going to your second laptops audio interface/midi interface. You will just need a midi interface for your second laptop (Or a sound interface with midi since you will need an audio card for the second mac anyways. Below is just a quick snap of what I use when I play out.. They are simply synced together using the audio interfaces midi in and out and using the method I had described above.

Maybe Im missing the exact problem?


Attachment 15735

Quote:

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Originally Posted by balakoth

Dan, your Denon is a sound interface, so its midi out should work fine with a midi patch cable going to your second laptops audio interface/midi interface. You will just need a midi interface for your second laptop (Or a sound interface with midi since you will need an audio card for the second mac anyways. Below is just a quick snap of what I use when I play out.. They are simply synced together using the audio interfaces midi in and out and using the method I had described above.

Maybe Im missing the exact problem?


Attachment 15735

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The problem is that I don't have a clue what I'm doing... I know how to mix records together and that's about where my knowledge ends!!! LOL

OK, so if I use a Midi cable to go from the Denon to a USB Midi interface then operate the interface through my laptop it should get the signal and sync up, is that right???

The Mac just runs Traktor using the Denons on-board sound card, so I think that I can just leave that alone.

The next step is where to route the audio from the laptop with Ableton, would it be wise to get a little USB mixing desk and put the decks through one channel and the laptop with Ableton through the other???

Thanks for your help so far by the way!!! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigdanhack

The problem is that I don't have a clue what I'm doing... I know how to mix records together and that's about where my knowledge ends!!! LOL

OK, so if I use a Midi cable to go from the Denon to a USB Midi interface then operate the interface through my laptop it should get the signal and sync up, is that right???

The Mac just runs Traktor using the Denons on-board sound card, so I think that I can just leave that alone.

The next step is where to route the audio from the laptop with Ableton, would it be wise to get a little USB mixing desk and put the decks through one channel and the laptop with Ableton through the other???

Thanks for your help so far by the way!!! :D

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Essentially yes. MIDI Cable from the Denon to your Second Laptops Midi Interface/Soundcard once you turn on the necessary settings Traktor should send a midi signal out, Ableton will receive if as long as you have sync on that device on.. and then its up to you to figure out adjusting the delay so the two "Clicks" from each program line up.

THIS is of course all if you want to use TWO Laptops to do this operation. The second Laptop is going to need to have its own external sound card (probably preferably one with midi)


But if you are just starting to mix and get the hang of how you want to do things, don't have the extra sound card, extra laptop or the funds right now at your disposal, running Ableton and Traktor on one machine is a different process.


As far as Traktor is concerned, because your denon is USB and a sound interface, you should be able to just use Traktor preferences to have Decks A and B round to one of the four channels on the Denon.

Then Ableton again its down to preference. You can have multiple tracks that just go back to one channel on your mixer, or you can split tracks up to go to two channels (two more decks for example as tracks in ableton).

Some form of USB controller for all of this would be ideal, but controllers are personal preference.

Past the syncing of the software, or laptops, what devices to control ableton and traktor is entirely up to you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by balakoth

Try actually using those vsts you just loaded then... If you say you run 2 massives 2 fm8s FX Chains and Machine at 4 percent.. Youd just be lying. Or highly over exaggerating. Or they sit there idle.. whichever.. whatever.. Who cares.

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I don't appreciate being called a liar.
http://i.imgur.com/is7S3hC.png

Goodbye.

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Originally Posted by botstein

I don't appreciate being called a liar.
http://i.imgur.com/is7S3hC.png

Goodbye.

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Guess Im confused on what you showed me... Your Clip View.. cut off... and you hit play.. Ok... Ill play too...
Attachment 15736

Then you come to something that uh... actually makes these vsts do something.
Attachment 15737

Good day to you sir

Id stick around the thread though, Dan may want some assistance with the midi syncing on the same computer etc, audio routing and all that goodness you seem like you may do that yourself. You may be of more use to him

Quote:

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Originally Posted by balakoth

Essentially yes. MIDI Cable from the Denon to your Second Laptops Midi Interface/Soundcard once you turn on the necessary settings Traktor should send a midi signal out, Ableton will receive if as long as you have sync on that device on.. and then its up to you to figure out adjusting the delay so the two "Clicks" from each program line up.

THIS is of course all if you want to use TWO Laptops to do this operation. The second Laptop is going to need to have its own external sound card (probably preferably one with midi)


But if you are just starting to mix and get the hang of how you want to do things, don't have the extra sound card, extra laptop or the funds right now at your disposal, running Ableton and Traktor on one machine is a different process.


As far as Traktor is concerned, because your denon is USB and a sound interface, you should be able to just use Traktor preferences to have Decks A and B round to one of the four channels on the Denon.

Then Ableton again its down to preference. You can have multiple tracks that just go back to one channel on your mixer, or you can split tracks up to go to two channels (two more decks for example as tracks in ableton).

Some form of USB controller for all of this would be ideal, but controllers are personal preference.

Past the syncing of the software, or laptops, what devices to control ableton and traktor is entirely up to you

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Sound, thanks man!!!

I've been DJ'ing 20 years, there or there abouts anyway... Only moved onto Traktor about a year ago but that's when I got the Denon mixer and all that. I've already got the second computer, it's a Dell WIN7 lappy, with 2.4gb quadcore processor and 8gb of RAM, I bought it to run Traktor but it's too unreliable so that's why I got the Mac.

I'm just using the laptop to go on the net and that's a real waste of a quality machine so that's why I've decided to try and get this working. All I need is to find the right external soundcard that will work with my laptop, then I'm going to buy a little mixing desk to put them through and then finally an Akai APC20 or maybe an APC40 and then I should be sorted.

I don't intend to use my set up to play live, just to mess about with at home, when I'm out DJ'ing, I'll just take Traktor on the Mac.

I'm going to do some research into soundcards and mixers, then when I've decided on which bits to buy, no doubt I'll be on here tapping the knowledge base to help me get it working!!!

Thanks for your advice so far chaps!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigdanhack

Sound, thanks man!!!

I've been DJ'ing 20 years, there or there abouts anyway... Only moved onto Traktor about a year ago but that's when I got the Denon mixer and all that. I've already got the second computer, it's a Dell WIN7 lappy, with 2.4gb quadcore processor and 8gb of RAM, I bought it to run Traktor but it's too unreliable so that's why I got the Mac.

I'm just using the laptop to go on the net and that's a real waste of a quality machine so that's why I've decided to try and get this working. All I need is to find the right external soundcard that will work with my laptop, then I'm going to buy a little mixing desk to put them through and then finally an Akai APC20 or maybe an APC40 and then I should be sorted.

I don't intend to use my set up to play live, just to mess about with at home, when I'm out DJ'ing, I'll just take Traktor on the Mac.

I'm going to do some research into soundcards and mixers, then when I've decided on which bits to buy, no doubt I'll be on here tapping the knowledge base to help me get it working!!!

Thanks for your advice so far chaps!!!

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Yeah ill be happy to help later.. Sorry about your Mac Purchase ;0

Windows Updates, turn off search indexing, turn off hibernate, update drivers, clean install dont use it for anything but music... Ive never had an issue with a windows machine like I did in the Serato/Traktor days of my MBP

Same hardware these days, and every machine I build is higher speced and anywhere from 1 to 2k cheaper :) To each their own, I realy cant stand their price and the OS

Why dont u run Traktor & Ableton on the same laptop and have a controller controlling Ableton for your mate, or however you want. This can be used for FX, triggering clips, non CPU hungry synths. So long as you dont use FX that rape the CPU, youre good. If you really need a 2nd monitor for visuals on what clips youre triggering, you can always get a small portable one and split screen the display using VGA/HDMI.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr_Moo

Why dont u run Traktor & Ableton on the same laptop and have a controller controlling Ableton for your mate, or however you want. This can be used for FX, triggering clips, non CPU hungry synths. So long as you dont use FX that rape the CPU, youre good. If you really need a 2nd monitor for visuals on what clips youre triggering, you can always get a small portable one and split screen the display using VGA/HDMI.

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I don't think that my Mac would be happy with all that going on, it's only a 2.1gb dualcore with 4gb of RAM... It's happy running Traktor, and I don't get any problems ever and I want to keep it that way.

I want maximum flexibility and functionality that's why using 2 separate machines is what I want to do... My mate used to be Eddie Halliwells manager and I was speaking to him yesterday, he tells me that it's possible with the right equipment.

I go on holiday at the end of March, when I get back I'm going to sort it.