Upgrading Recomendations

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03-03-2013, 01:24 PM
Zer0beet

Upgrading Recomendations

Alright guys, I am in the market for a new controller -

I currently own a Novation Twitch, and a Mix-Track. I've owned an APC 20, 40, and MixTrack Pro.

I am currently looking to upgrade a something with good jog wheels, internal sound card, and I would prefer that it have multiple types of out puts rather than just multiple RCA outs, or just 1/4in outs. Better yet if you could recommend me a combination of gear (CD player, turntables, mixer, DVS box, ect thats within the below price range, that would be great)

800 dollars seems to be my price limit -

If it helps, here's a mash up I recently recorded during a live set, maybe it will help you ID my play style, making it easier to recommend a controller. All I know is that, I really like having a decent amount of cue points and loops saved.
https://soundcloud.com/ddanse/kyoto-...lings-dj-danse

Thanks for your time.
03-03-2013, 01:27 PM
CountenanT

There's probably loads for that price limit (though Im not quite sure of the prices in dollars) - have you looked at Traktor Kontrols? VCI? Mixdecks? Reloop Terminal Mix?
03-03-2013, 01:34 PM
Zer0beet

I have taken a look at the Mixdeck quad, but the general consensus amoung the people I know who have bought 1 is that it SUCKS in controller mode -
I would buy a reloop controller, but I'd have to pay an extra 130USD to use it with serato :/
I have also looked at an S4 (Which is right at my price limit) and that is one of my definite options.
03-03-2013, 01:56 PM
mdcdesign

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0beet

I have taken a look at the Mixdeck quad, but the general consensus amoung the people I know who have bought 1 is that it SUCKS in controller mode -
I would buy a reloop controller, but I'd have to pay an extra 130USD to use it with serato :/
I have also looked at an S4 (Which is right at my price limit) and that is one of my definite options.

Terminal Mix 4; they ship with a full copy of Serato DJ now, if that's your sort of thing. Personally, I'm a Traktor man so I just re-mapped it.

Also: best controller I've EVER used.
03-03-2013, 02:07 PM
3heads

Well, if jogs are of major importance to you, what about 2x Denon DN-SC2000 and an Ecler Nuo 2.0 mixer? Oh, and a soundcard of course, but an Audio2 should do for the moment. You might clock in a bit above your limit, but not by much.
03-03-2013, 02:13 PM
mdcdesign

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3heads

Well, if jogs are of major importance to you, what about 2x Denon DN-SC2000 and an Ecler Nuo 2.0 mixer? Oh, and a soundcard of course, but an Audio2 should do for the moment. You might clock in a bit above your limit, but not by much.

10cm jog on the SC2000s vs 15.5cm on the TM4. The TM4 literally has the biggest jogwheels I've ever seen on a MIDI controller, aside from the NS7, and that's a whole different kettle of fish being moving platter etc.
03-03-2013, 02:19 PM
makar1

If jog wheels are a priority, you should know that any 3rd party controllers will not have as tight jog integration with Traktor compared to the S2/4.

The more expensive Vestax controllers (300,380,400) often get good points for their jog wheel quality.
03-03-2013, 04:14 PM
SlvrDragon50

I thought teh Denon jogs actually have higher resolution than the S4/S2? Or maybe it was just the pitch faders.
03-03-2013, 04:27 PM
Ross

Quote:

Originally Posted by makar1

If jog wheels are a priority, you should know that any 3rd party controllers will not have as tight jog integration with Traktor compared to the S2/4.

The more expensive Vestax controllers (300,380,400) often get good points for their jog wheel quality.

Not true, the Numark 4Trak is quoted to have better jogs than the S4 as far as responsiveness and quality goes.
03-03-2013, 04:43 PM
mdcdesign

Yeah the whole "Traktor S4 perfect integration" thing is bull; the Reloop stuff gives 4096 ticks per rotation, which is WAY higher than the NI hardware.

EDIT: S4 is 1000 ticks, NS6 had 3600, not sure about the NS7.
03-03-2013, 04:47 PM
makar1

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdcdesign

Yeah the whole "Traktor S4 perfect integration" thing is bull; the Reloop stuff gives 4096 ticks per rotation, which is WAY higher than the NI hardware.

EDIT: S4 is 1000 ticks, NS6 had 3600, not sure about the NS7.

Does Reloop gear rely on TSI mappings? According to staff at Reloop you can't make use of the high-res jogs with just a basic TSI mapping:
http://www.djtechtools.com/2011/05/0...ey-3-reviewed/
03-03-2013, 04:54 PM
mdcdesign

Quote:

Originally Posted by makar1

Does Reloop gear rely on TSI mappings? According to staff at Reloop you can't make use of the high-res jogs with just a basic TSI mapping:
http://www.djtechtools.com/2011/05/0...ey-3-reviewed/

AFAIK, Traktor DOES have native support for most Reloop gear now, it's been added progressively over the past few versions. Personally, I use my own mapping for the TM4 though, so I couldn't comment on the NI presets efficacy... all I know is, of all the controllers I've used (including the S4, the NS6, the DDJ-S1 and various low budget controllers), the TM4 has the best jogwheels I've EVER used.

Most reviewers have actually focussed on that particular aspect more than any other, for example:
http://www.djbooth.net/index/dj-equi...-dj-controller

In fact, the ONLY criticism anyone seemed to be able to level at it was the fact it shipped with Serato DJ Intro (so you could only use 2 decks), which it doesn't anymore; it comes with the full whack Serato DJ which gives you EVERYTHING, so basically the only criticism people had about it doesn't apply anymore :)
03-03-2013, 04:58 PM
makar1

From the review you linked:
"In Serato DJ Intro, the DJ will have the tightest Jog Wheel integration of all and scratching will be much nicer than on Virtual DJ LE or Traktor."

Have they updated the TM4 in some way since then that improves jog response? Or is this just incorrect info by the reviewer.

Where did you see that full Serato DJ is now included btw? Both the Serato and Reloop websites seem to suggest it still comes with Intro.
03-03-2013, 05:10 PM
mdcdesign

Quote:

Originally Posted by makar1

From the review you linked:
"In Serato DJ Intro, the DJ will have the tightest Jog Wheel integration of all and scratching will be much nicer than on Virtual DJ LE or Traktor."

Have they updated the TM4 in some way since then that improves jog response? Or is this just incorrect info by the reviewer.

I'm pretty sure it's just an assumption made by the reviewer based on the fact that support for the TM4 is integrated into Serato; it's still MIDI control though, so theoretically there should be no difference whatsoever. Personally, I found Serato inferior to Traktor all-round; from scratching, to FX, to information display.

The key to getting ANY controller working at its best is tweaking your mappings over, and over, and over again until they suit YOU perfectly. I can, however, give one specific example of why the TM4's jogs are incredible... there's no sticker drift. At all. I can mark the jogwheel with a label, align a cue point with a beat on the track, scroll back through half the track and then forwards to that same cue point, and the label will be in EXACTLY the same position it was originally. At any speed, any acceleration, and any form of movement. For a MIDI controller, that's a ridiculously rare thing.
03-03-2013, 05:14 PM
makar1

AFAIK using MIDI as the communication protocol is one reason why jog wheels have poor integration, whereas HID gives the better response needed for scratching. From what I've read so far, only the 4TRAK and Pio CDJs have overcome the Traktor jogwheel limitation.

If you use the TM4 with either Serato or Traktor you'll still have to buy the software separately right?
03-03-2013, 10:25 PM
Zer0beet

Okay, all this buzz about the TM four made me do some fact checking AND I have found a discrepancy

Reloop's site say the TM4 comes with a copy of serato DJ and Serato video
Serato says I have to upgrade my license to use the TM4 with seratio DJ

Whos telling the truth?
03-03-2013, 10:45 PM
makar1

Looks like they have a limited promotional offer on the software, but the online shops I checked all say out of stock/coming soon.
03-04-2013, 07:52 AM
mdcdesign

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zer0beet

Okay, all this buzz about the TM four made me do some fact checking AND I have found a discrepancy

Reloop's site say the TM4 comes with a copy of serato DJ and Serato video
Serato says I have to upgrade my license to use the TM4 with seratio DJ

Whos telling the truth?

Reloop are. Pretty much any Reloop supplier in the UK can get the TM4 in with a 3-4 day order time, and it WILL come with the full Serato DJ. Mine did, and although I got it second-user, I'm pretty sure the original owner bought it from Cookies in Stoke-on-Trent.