CDJ Pitch Accuracy

[escapemcp]

OK guys.. after a bit of help here. Have tested a few cheaper CDJs and have been finding that the pitch ONLY changes when the CDJ's on-'screen' %age value changes (e.g. from 0.1%>0.2%).

To test, you need TSP & a timecode CD
I ran a CDJ (with Traktor timecode CD loaded) into an Audio 8, and changed the pitch on the CDJ. The tempo in Traktor ONLY changed when the %age readout on the CDJ in question (American Audio Radius 1000) changed. So, I can therefore get 0.5% and 0.6% tempo on the CDJ, BUT NOT 0.55%. I also tested this on my Citronic MP-X10 (USB stick player) after ripping the Traktor timecode CD to USB stick (legal? ), and got exactly the same result (although admittedly the AA Radius and Citronic firmwares are similar).

Back to using CDJs and mixer (no Traktor), 0.1% accuracy is ok. You can mix with it, but you can't lock tunes in like you can with Technics. I am often finding that one value is too slow and the next is too fast. I always thought it was my pitch slider control when I couldn't get the tunes to lock, until I tested their actual resolution using Traktor.

On the AA Radius, on 4% pitch range, there are only 81 steps of accuracy/resolution (-4.0->+4.0)... people complain about 7 bit midi resolution (127 steps) using controllers, but 81 is far less than 127 (although it is still, technically, 7 bit! ). 7 bit is not enough for MIDI controllers, and therefore definitely not enough for CDJs!

I am currently thinking of buying a pair of new CDJs (Numark NDX900 - liking the double interface), but am now worried of them having this 'feature'. Is this normal to ALL CDJs, or just the cheaper ones? (I think I know the answer to this, but would like to know at what price point/quality that the accuracy improves)

Any chance of any of 'you lot' with various CDJs can test and see how common this is? I expect that it is manufacturer specific (as manufacturers will tend to use the same [pitch slider control] code in a lot of different products). Any CDJ that cannot give me more accuracy than 0.1% should be given to the toddlers to play with (should really be 0.01% resolution or less).

I know 0.1% doesn't sound like much, but when you are mid-way between the 2 values, it does notice a lot. It's enough to distract you so that you have to worry about tempos and nudging it every phrase or so. This takes brain CPU cycles, which results in me doing less in the mix, which results in a more boring set, which results in me getting less bookings (& therefore, money), & which results in me having to buy cheap CDJs that only have 0.1% accuracy!!!! :eek:

Many thanks if you can add your CDJs accuracy to this thread, and some sort of accuracy indicator. If your CDJs are too sensitive to give an accuracy, then great, they are the ones I want!

Thanyovermuch

[dope]

I'll try to test my CDJs 350 tomorrow if i can remind myself (wtf is that a correct sentence ? hope you got the point).

Even though they are cheap CDJs, it's still from the best CDJ manufacturer so we'll see how it goes.

[escapemcp]

Many, many thanks dope. Hopefully we can get most brands tested (i.e. other people please help!! ). The accuracy thing is something you wouldn't know unless you do the Traktor (or Serato I suppose) test - you would just think that your mixing is a little off, which it would always be on those particular CDJs.

[TheSoundBureau]

For CDJ-2000s/1000s/900s/850s/400s/350s/200s:

+/- 6% : 0.02%
+/- 10%: 0.05%
+/- 16%: 0.05%
+/- 100% (WIDE) : 0.5% (if the cdj even had wide)

CDJ-800:

+/- 10% : 0.05%
+/- 100% (WIDE) : 0.5% for cds, 0.1% for mp3

[escapemcp]

Thx TSB. 0.02% is what I would accept as just about ok. I am surprised by the 0.05% figs on anything other than 6% range. It simply isn't accurate enough to get tight mixes that require no extra fiddling. Admittedly, with vinyl rips and older stuff, the bpm varies slightly anyway, but getting a mix locked in on newer digital stuff allows you to mess around with FX, EQ or other tricks to add a little something to the mix.

I am surprised that no-one has bought this up before (especially trance jocks with their never ending mixes ). Searched DJTT forums, but couldn't find any mention of it.

Hoping someone can test the Numark NDX800 or 900 . Am thinking of getting the NDX900 (CD/USB/midi player with separate soundcard for Traktor, and a sorta slip mode - god I love slip mode), but if it's 0.1% only, then I am having serious second thoughts. It's a joke that my USB player is far more accurate in MIDI mode (10bit res=1024 steps) than native USB MP3 mode! (@ 6% range=121 steps).

[firebr4nd]

For CDJ-2000s/1000s/900s/850s/400s/350s/200s:

+/- 6% : 0.02%
+/- 10%: 0.05%
+/- 16%: 0.05%
+/- 100% (WIDE) : 0.5% (if the cdj even had wide)

CDJ-800:

+/- 10% : 0.05%
+/- 100% (WIDE) : 0.5% for cds, 0.1% for mp3

These are numbers when using the CDJs with Traktor or as a standalone device?

[TheSoundBureau]

These are numbers when using the CDJs with Traktor or as a standalone device?

if you're using timecodes with traktor, yes since it still reads cds the same way. i would imagine hid would be the same, havent tried that though

[firebr4nd]

if you're using timecodes with traktor, yes since it still reads cds the same way. i would imagine hid would be the same, havent tried that though

Do you know what the increments are for when you're just using the CDJs and a mixer without traktor?

[TheSoundBureau]

Do you know what the increments are for when you're just using the CDJs and a mixer without traktor?

Those ARE the increments when using it without traktor.

[mostapha]

Thx TSB. 0.02% is what I would accept as just about ok. I am surprised by the 0.05% figs on anything other than 6% range. It simply isn't accurate enough to get tight mixes that require no extra fiddling.

Having done it for a very long time, you're completely wrong.

First, you'll always have to fiddle.

Second, I used to worry about things like that, just like you are, but Pioneer CDJs are plenty good enough. .05 is already more accurate than any Technics turntable and perfectly fine to mix on.

And before you say "wait, the pitch faders on the technics were analog"……analog doesn't necessarily mean higher resolution…they're still stepped values, but they're stepped kinda randomly based on the last time the fader was cleaned..