Phase Sync / Looping Question

[Mr.Jones]

Hey Folks,

I've gone through both the forums here, and on NI, and haven't been able to find anything to solve this problem. I seem to be doing everything right according to the forums, so hopefully someone can point me in the right direction here.

I'm having trouble with the "phase sync" function. It would be super appreciated if anyone could take a look at my workflow and see if I'm missing something obvious.

I'm using four decks, routed externally through an A&H Xone 62. I've been messing around with looping all the decks at 1 beat, 1/2 beat and 1/4 beat loops, getting things a bit crazy and then releasing the loops so that everything falls back in phase. Doesn't seem to work all of the time.

- I've tried linking "phase sync" to the "loop set" buttons for each deck.
- I've tried creating a super button which deactivates the loops for each deck ("loop active") while triggering the "phase sync" function

I'll still on occasion having things fall out of phase, ending up with offset kick drums for some of my decks.

The only thing I can think might be an issue is the fact I sync all the decks to Traktor's internal Master Clock, as opposed to syncing any of the decks to a single master deck. I've never had issues syncing tracks - All my beatgrids are solid and sync always lights up. It's just getting everything to phrase correctly after I've looped and released all the tracks.

Thanks folks! Hopefully, someone can assist...
- Jones

[Jester]

Do you have sync set to "Hold" or "Toggle" man?

[Mr.Jones]

Hey Man,

"sync" is set to 'toggle'.

"phase sync" doesn't give me any option but to select 'button' and then 'trigger.'

Originally, the buttons I selected to use as 'loop set' for each of my decks I also programmed as the 'phase sync' button. I thought this would ensure everything would run smoothly after I released the loops, but I still occasionally get tracks coming on on the half-beat / the wrong phased off-time.

Everything remains beatmatched and synced when I release the loops, they're just not always aligned properly.

Cheers
- Jones

[Jester]

I'd suggest using the tempo sync rather than the phase sync mate. Phase sync will centre the meter it in the middle, but doesn't change the tempo, so that could explain the drifting you are getting.

Also there's a good article about all the different options Here buddy, if you haven't seen it yet

[Mr.Jones]

Hey Jester,

Thanks for plowing through all of my previous posts. I did read through the article you put up the link to. I'm probably just really badly explaining the problem I'm having...

The tracks always stay in sync and beat matched, no matter how crazy the loops I end up throwing all 4 tracks into simultaneously. When I end the loops, everything remains in sync and beatmatched. Syncing the tracks isn't the problem.

The issue is that one of the tracks will now be in phase / in phrase the wrong way, even the phase meter shows everything to be okay. Remember when you used to launch a record a second too late (when playing on old fashioned tech 1200s) and then realized that even though everything was beatmatched, the kick drums were staggered, and the 8 bar phrases aren't properly aligned? That's what's happening on occasion...

Cheers
- Jones

[DennisHuiberts]

Hey man, I'm also interested how this is done. The solution that I use is that I set a loop-cuepoint in a break on the track that I'm crazy-looping (1 beat or less). So when I'm kicking out of a crazy-loop, I drop right in a break so that the crazy-loop has more power (sorry for the stupid crazy-loop name but I don't know how to call it ).

[Yul]

Hello Mr Jones,
if I can suggest that like 'old fashioned' 1200, you'll have yourself to follow the rhythm when releasing the loop. As you said sync isn't the problem, your timing could be (that's a supposition and I may be wrong of course). Note that timing issues could come not from you but from the latency between your controller/set-up and Traktor.

Shouldn't happen much when using '1/4' or lesser loops as Traktor will probably catch up fine (assuming when releasing on the correct beat). The 'distance'/time between the edges of your loop isn't very long so if you're using sync the function would probably grab the release point and stick it to the nearest bar which is hopefully the one you wanted the release to happen.
However when using '1/2' and '1' loops, the correct release (or when you're passing from a '1/2' or '1' loop to a '2' or higher loop) relies more on you in fact (and your set-up). A bad anticipation or a release on a hurry and 'bam' you're not in the rhythm anymore....like when using turntables when you're missing the correct timing or beat.
I think - but I may be wrong - that it's just as simple as that. I'm not questioning your skills of course., I just say that can happen.
I hope I don't sound like a prick offering a so simple explanation.

As DennisHubert suggested a good work around if you're playing some dirty loop tricks is to have cue points in use. A good help can also be to use a 4 bar loop stored in an unused deck to have something to measure you against visually.

[Mr.Jones]

Hey Guys,

Solid and fine suggestions all, and no offense taken at all! I was hoping there was some way to program the loop releases so the bars would fall in-time, but you're right in the fact it probably just comes down to releasing everything with the right timing to begin with.

The idea of jumping to another cue point is an interesting one, and one I'll definitely experiment with. Programming a smart button that would automatically jump several tracks to a predetermined cue point / hot cue would be easy enough to do.

The smart button I currently have which releases all the loops while phase syncing works *most* of time time. Maybe those instances where I get a bit excited and jump the gun explain those bars not lining up...

Thanks for the feedback guys. Everyone on this forum has always been a big help...

Cheers,
Jones

[calvin01]

no mate its not timing of your release.im new to this but have been a bit unsure about this myself so have taken a bit of time to get my head round it.its got to do with the beat grids you make.[url]http://www.djtechtools.com/2008/04/09/quickly-set-up-perfect-beat-grids/[url] .line up the claps.hope this helps

[Yul]

Calvin I guess you're misunderstanding the above: of course if the beatgrid is incorrect you'll have trouble to be phase synced.
However that's not really the point: let's say you're engaging a 1 beat loop then you decide when to release it. If you release your loop on the incorrect timing, you'll still be synced (as Mr Jones explained) ....but out of the rhythm.
But yes as told before you can use cue points to your advantages.

For "micro looping" management you may find this interesting as a solution.http://www.djtechtools.com/2008/10/2...e-assign-sync/
but remember : "It does not match the tempo but lines up the beats so they are hopefully in time."