Ableton and Live Gigs

DJ Software & Apps Ableton
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Ableton and Live Gigs

I’ve been producing in Ableton for a while, and would really like to get more into the performance side of things. Problem is, I don’t have any proper DJ skills to speak of, so how does it work for you guys who play bars/clubs with Ableton? I read somewhere on here about some clubs that have their own gear (CDJs, etc) and if I don’t really know how to mix without a laptop and my Push/Launchpad am I still going to be able to play a gig here and there? Can you just show up with your Laptop, interface, and a Push/Launchpad and mix away or are more conventional DJ/controller skills required? I know on a very basic level how to use a mixer, but that’s about it at the moment.

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Hi !

It’s usually no biggie to in a club with ableton, several things to keep in mind though :

  • your setting up will be more than “insert several CD / usb key”… keep it in mind, train for unpacking (when I was in a 8 persons rock band, we took our set-up time from 40’ to 10’) : you will have one song or two to transition - the whole process need to be <5’.

  • your setup will have more SPOF (single points of failure) than a “classical” CDJ setup, train on that side too (ie. my live laptop have ONLY ableton, a text editor, Google Chrome and Launchpad driver installed. It’s ALWAYS freshly booted for a Live. It’s always USB cable in a good shape, and spare ones.

  • YOU have to adapt to such place : the booth will be small and cluttered (in bars) and you won’t be able to put both CDJ under the table, if there’s an actual stage, and you need a table : be specific about it at least 3 or 4 days before , ask a technical sheet, be precise with the space you’ll need.

Untrained musician (DJ, violonist, engineer, guitar player) will show up with some impossible requests:

  • I miss “X” cable. do you have that one ?
  • My computer fucks up ! I need to reinstall the “whatever” VST , because i tried something new last night , give me 30’.
  • My amp doesn’t work and I have no spare valves.
  • My violine piezo hums I don’t get it, it worked well on my computer speakers.
    And you don’t have time to solve it , it usually result in changing the play order, and everybody will hate you

SO. Long story made short :

  • be fast to setup and be independant, it’s part of your professionalism, nobody will do it for you.
  • have some spares consumable (usb hub, backup of your als, drivers, audio cables, usb cables …)
  • have some basic knowledge of working with CDJ (basic transition, …) and some usb keys with one hour of your set : if all fuck up , and you can’t use your setup, you can still play for a good hour, and get your check. Instead of cancelling
  • have a mp3 player ready; if the transition is complicated and the booth have only one spot , it will make things easier
  • it’s normal for things to fuck up sometimes , it’s no big deal. But in a stressful situation (live act) , nobody wants to deal with an overstressed unprepared whining kid.
  • it’s no big deal to have an unusual setup, but be ready to adapt. YOU need to deal with it.
  • if they trust you enough to book you, deserve that trust , if you fail to run your specific setup : it’s your fault, they’ll know it, and there’s a finite number of promoter/DJ/venue per place. And they speak to each other
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What audio interface are you using?

Single or multiple outs?

I can help re:using Ableton to DJ with, but I’ll need to understand how you do it at the moment so that I can make some suggestions…

The answer is yes - you can just turn up w/laptop AI and controller, but how you connect to the mixer depends on your audio interface, and how many outs you’ll use…

Are you using an Ableton template? How many channels are you using? Grouped? Going to sends, or Main Out?

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I’m using a NI Komplete Audio 6 which has balanced 1/4" output but no XLR output. Would I typically plug my interface into the house mixer or straight to the house PA? In Ableton I’m mostly just using my own template with two channels set up as deck A and B as well as a handful of other channels for stems and simple loops. Then the audio goes to the master stereo output with sends/returns for a couple global effects (delay/reverb and a filter/EQ maybe)- in my setup at home I’m used to just mixing everything down to a stereo mix on channel 1/2 output to my speakers so I figured a similar setup would work in a gig (I do all the mixing internally in Ableton obviously, don’t have a real DJ mixer ATM). The interface has a monitor/headphone out as well as a separate 3/4 output one of which I could potentially use for cuing (again I’m not sure how that works in a club setting). Then one last question.. how does this work when switching out with the DJ before and after me.. I assume I get set up while they finish up but at some point I’m going to have to go through the house mixer to mix in and out of my set right? thanks for the help…

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Yeah I’m not so worried about my own setup, I’m good with computers and troubleshooting, it’s just in the case of catastrophic failure I would have essentially zero idea of how to do a backup set on a CDJ. Is that something I could potentially learn through research/videos or do I really need to get my hands on a unit to practice? As far as MP3 player, is a smartphone acceptable backup in this regard? I figure worst case scenario I could have a handful of tracks pre-mixed ready to play on my phone as a short term solution if I was having major computer/interface issues, or is this completely misguided? thanks for the help..

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You’d definitely need to play about on CDJs (or at least something comparable) to learn how to beatmatch manually. It becomes like second nature once you’ve done it a bit, but you couldn’t just watch Youtube vids and then step into a live set environment (at least I definitely wouldn’t). Not really sure about the pre-mixed tracks on the phone… I doubt that would go down well but don’t have much experience in that area.

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Would I typically plug my interface into the house mixer or straight to the house PA?

In the house mixer, on a line input, as a performer you shouldn’t be allowed to touch the PA.

In Ableton I’m mostly just using my own template with two channels set up as deck A and B as well as a handful of other channels for stems and simple loops. Then the audio goes to the master stereo output with sends/returns for a couple global effects (delay/reverb and a filter/EQ maybe)- in my setup at home I’m used to just mixing everything down to a stereo mix on channel 1/2 output to my speakers so I figured a similar setup would work in a gig (I do all the mixing internally in Ableton obviously, don’t have a real DJ mixer ATM). The interface has a monitor/headphone out as well as a separate 3/4 output one of which I could potentially use for cuing (again I’m not sure how that works in a club setting).

if you mix internal to ableton, you might be more comfortable cuing in ableton as well, you can do it on the mixer , but you’ll use one more input there, and you might have trouble using the mixer right out of the box without a proper training on it.
Keep it simple.

Personnally i do all of the cueing+mixing in ableton, my tech sheet bein’ :

  • 2 sq. ft. of EMPTY thick table space.
  • 1 relevant wedge or monitor compared for proper monitoring
  • 2 lines input as RCA or TRS jack to a mixer or a DI to FoH desk

Then one last question.. how does this work when switching out with the DJ before and after me.. I assume I get set up while they finish up but at some point I’m going to have to go through the house mixer to mix in and out of my set right? thanks for the help…

depends on the place and personel :
A . there a FoH engineers , you’ll be usually to a far away desk with a DI box, the next DJ will plug his system to another DI to the desk, the engineer will help you transition, cue him when you’re done and the other DJ started, so he can mute your track, and you get your stuff off

B . smaller club situation ; you’re all around a mixer (hopefully with >4 imput) let the other DJ transition from your last song (give him the damn BPM, and don’t surprise him) when it sound right, filter up/down fade out, cut volume , unplug. That’s why you should use the house mixer.

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Yeah, I have some experience on SL1200s (I used to have a whole analog DJ setup many years ago) so I know a bit about beat matching, just never had the chance to try it on a CDJ. I guess I’ve gotta get my hands on one sometime.

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if you’ve been rolling some 1200s, CDJ are no big deal at all, for the basics 2h or so should be enough imho$

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Ok.. If I had the choice I’d probably keep all tracks, mixing and cuing within Ableton, but I have enough experience on analog mixers that I should be able to at least handle an external cue, though not sure why I would need to do that anyway. Although you’re right it would be preferable to run through the house mixer when fading in/out of my set. I guess I could still keep cuing internal to Ableton and still just send stereo out to the house mixer. As far as the monitor, that’s just the house mix right, not any cues or any special signals, they’ll deal with it on their end? (meaning I just need to worry about one stereo output)

As far as the actual output from my interface, as I said its a balanced 1/4", so that means I need a TRS>TRS to keep it balanced? If the FoH/DI needed RCA, could I just use 1/4" TS > RCA or would that be a problem because it’s a balanced signal?

Thanks for all the help, I realize I’m kinda all over the place with the noob questions.

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As far as the monitor, that’s just the house mix right, not any cues or any special signals, they’ll deal with it on their end?

YES! but sometimes, you can tweak the monitor volume, without touching the PA volume, that can be useful.

(meaning I just need to worry about one stereo output)

this is the point yeah

As far as the actual output from my interface, as I said its a balanced 1/4", so that means I need a TRS>TRS to keep it balanced?

Yes, in the case of an house mixer , some have only RCA input, so prepare for both cases.
on short cables (<5m) TRS/RCA/Monos shouldn’t be a problem.

In the case of a FoH with DI box, one of the point of these is to make any signal symetrical , they usually have jack input.

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This thread is fun!

Then that’s exactly what I’d do at the venue. Just output directly from an out on your AI to a single channel on the mixer.

Should be as simple as plugging in to one of teh channel son the mixer. If it’s a DJM, chances are there will be a free LINE input, so you can plug into that while the other guy is still playing. Just flip the switch from CD or Phono to LINE when he’s finishing up (when his last song is playing on one channel), and you’re good to go.

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A key piece of gear that most people don’t think about is an isolation transformer. Some DIs have them built in. What an isolation transformer does is to keep your analog audio path physically uncoupled from the FOH or PA system. It’s possible that a problem in your set-up could blow up the FOH mixer. It’s possible that a short or problem could blow up your audio interface.

Also, your set-up is probably on a different breaker or an entirely different service than the FOH or PA system. Any voltage mismatches could lead to a hum inserted into the signal. That’s not something you want to have to deal with 10 minutes before playing.