Dont Understand This…
Why do dj’s use cdj’s with a laptop? And what is so amazing about cdj’s nowadays anyways. I can understand how it looks more professional, but why are they so damn expensive when you can do that on a much cheaper controller ?
The oft asked, never answered to anyone’s satisfaction, $10,000 question 
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haha yeah no shit
CDJs with a laptop seem like a waste to me unless you really just like the feel of CDJs and need your laptop with all the tracks, that’s the only reason I can see for using CDJs with a laptop.
Why I believe clubs/many people use CDJs today:
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Easy to transition from DJ to DJ during a set in a club, don’t need to connect and reconnect a bunch of crap, can use the same system.
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Don’t need to haul a bunch of stuff to a club to play, just bring your CDs.
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In terms of finding a gig, being able to use a CDJ shows a level of credibility and experience that strictly-midi DJs don’t have. I attribute this mainly due to the huge influx of cheap midi gear that can turn anybody with $50 into a "DJ’. Club owners want to weed out these people because they want experienced DJs who won’t screw up a set + will bring people in, not a kid who just started DJing two weeks ago. Being able to use a CDJ shows that A) you’ve been around for a while and know previous technology, indicating experience, and B) You know how to beatmatch and do everything properly, you aren’t reliant on your software
From a club owner’s perspective, it makes sense and is very understandable.
Overall, these are pretty well the reasons why I picked up some used CDJs recently, after using strictly midi for about 2 years. I still prefer and will always use midi over CDJs by a longshot, but being able to do both is pretty nice imo.
Yeah I mean right now, Im all midi, but I feel like I spend more time on the controllers than the laptop and I agree 100% about the experianced thing. Im thinking of going the cdj route, its just alot more pricey, but thats expected.
This is going to be a long one. I’ll probably ramble a bit. But it’s something that I’ve been thinking about for a while…in more contexts than just DJing.
To answer the simple one first: why do people use a Laptop with CDJs? Frankly, I see 2 reasons: effects and library.
The effects in Traktor and Serato–if you like effects at all–are better than what’s on your average mixer. Now that Pioneer has basically completely dominated the club scene with “not crap” effects for a long time, that’s probably fading some. But there are still more of them in Traktor, and you have more control over most of them. The library issue is one of preference. If I’m playing for an hour, I know I’ll play 8 to 20 tracks depending on genre, time during the night, type of set, and a few other factors. I can’t see wanting more than 80 tracks per hour at any point. If you know so little about the gig that you genuinely feel like you need more than that, then you haven’t adequately prepared for the gig and probably shouldn’t have gotten it. Even if you have 100,000 songs in your collection…if you can’t cut it down to 2-4 times the amount of music you need for the gig, you could stand to do more prep work.
The second question is more complex, and while I firmly believe what I believe, I’m not convinced that it won’t change again, and I’m not convinced that my answer is right for everyone.
Why CDJs when Computers can do more?
Simplicity is one element. It’s a lot easier to have a consistent, high standard of quality if the sound guy (venue owner; security guy tasked with it; whatever) has fewer pieces of gear to understand. It’s also easier to transition between DJs if the only thing they have to lug in/out of the booth are headphones and CD wallets or USB keys. It’s easier to do the sound check ahead of time and know that the levels are going to be sane. You just have one stereo fader on the FOH mixer that you have to pay attention to in order to compensate for DJs knowing or not knowing how to read level meters. If you’re running off controllers run direct to the board…there are more variables, though it’s still doable.
Risk–from the DJ’s perspective–is another one. If there’s a disaster (fire, flood, etc.) or theft, it’s a lot easier to recover from a $340 loss (assuming top-end headphones and USB keys) than a $3000 loss (assuming a MBP with an SSD, S4, and top-end headphones). In the first case…somebody else has the music you brought that night. Big deal. In the second, you better hope that you have insurance or are commanding a high price, otherwise you’ll be gigging for a while just to hit the black again.
Accountability is a big one. Running a venue is expensive. DJs–assuming you’re not in a race to the bottom, bedroom DJs playing for a beer type place–cost money. The PA system costs money. Bouncers, licenses, bar staff, liquor, furniture, insurance, the space, etc. all add up, and they’re all things that most DJs don’t pay attention to. At that point, knowing that your equipment is in passable shape and that failures aren’t too likely to ruin your night (and cost you an arm & a leg in lost revenue and lost reputation) is huge and a lot more tolerable than some DJ you don’t know who might be sending you a horrible output or wiring your shit wrong, even if they’re otherwise competent. Knowing how to play on CDJs (if you can trust they recorded their demo that way) also weeds out the worst digital DJs who can’t deal with failures, but I think that’s probably more of a bonus.
One big example of this is the rock/punk/metal venue backline. I’ve been to a few rock or metal shows that had huge lineups, just meaning the sheer number of performers. When a metal band shows up at Prog Power in Atlanta, they walk on to stage carrying drum sticks (for the drummer), nothing (for the vocalists), or a guitar and a pedal board (for the guitarists) and have a small selection of amps to plug into. Yeah…It’s a PITA if you’re used to playing a huge 200W hughes & kettner amp that you custom modded to give you your sound and all you find is a Marshall DSL and some Mesa Triple Rectifier. But you can still play. And changeovers take about a minute plus a very quick sound check that’s entirely spent setting amp gain and EQ. You don’t have to re-mic cabinets; you don’t have to tear down and build up a full drum set. You don’t have to deal with any weird shit. Play like that or don’t play. It draws huge acts and huge numbers of punters because it runs so smoothly.
DJing is the same way, even though the most complicated controller setup is lots simpler than changing out a mic’d drum kit.
Professionalism is another, though one I’ll gloss over since I’ve kind of mentioned it. Playing on what’s basically considered industry standard stuff implies a level of professionalism that the vast majority of controllers don’t immediately display. This fact becomes more apparent when you realize that the vast majority of club owners/managers have never heard of DJTT, don’t know that a MidiFigher wasn’t thrown together in your retarded cousin’s basement for $5 with no expertise or research, and don’t understand anything about what computers are capable of.
The issue when thinking about it purely from a DJ’s Performance is a much harrier matter, but I still think the CDJs come out on top. I freely admit that other people can make different decisions and that I–too–made a different decision for a long time. My position in knowing the different ways a DJ can perform isn’t unique by any stretch of the imagination, but I do feel it makes me qualified to comment. I’ve owned and performed with Technics turntables, Pioneer CDJs, NI and other MIDI gear, Ableton, Traktor, SSL, and a pair of iPods plugged into a Behringer Xenyx at different points in everything from my bedroom to small clubs. I’m not a touring pro and have never made a substantial amount of money from DJing, but I’ve seen some aspect of it all.
Here’s the thing. The more prep work you put into your set, the more you can do. But that holds no matter what you’re using. Orbital still performs with Analog and VA synths…and when I saw them, I didn’t see any computers. They’re doing more than the vast majority of DJs, and they’re doing it–to my knowledge–with all hardware. And they’re not the only ones.
Here’s the difference: computers are basically limitless. They’re insanely versatile. And while that’s amazing from a cost standpoint, it’s not the best for reliability and more importantly real-time control. Having a direct, simple control for each thing you want to do is worth way more to a lot of people than limitless capabilities.
By accepting the limitations that Pioneer (or Technics or Vestax or Urei or whomever) have placed on a device, you get simple, direct controls for what it can do. You get a piece of gear that’s entire purpose is to do those few things really well. And the sacrifices you make–from a DJ’s perspective–are pretty small.
Pioneer CDJ-2000s have 3 hot cues instead of 5 (SSL) or 8 (Traktor). Their looping isn’t quite as simple, but it’s just as accurate. And you can save loops ahead of time in Rekordbox just like you can with Traktor or SSL…but you’re limited to 3 instead of 5 or 8, shared with hot cues exactly the same way.
And if you really want that many hot cues…MPCs exist. So does the Octatrack. And a bucket load of other samplers that can do very similar things. They probably take a bit longer to set up and definitely longer to get good at, but what you sacrifice in ease of learning and setup you gain in direct control in the moment.
I think computers have their place, and I think that the world is quickly adapting to accept them. SSL was accepted faster than CDJs were. TSP was accepted faster than Ableton. I think that–for the most part–they make the right concessions of usability for versatility while costing less…if that’s what you’re into.
But it’s not as simple as saying “computers can do more,” because I really think they can’t. They can do more with less time/money invested, but to some degree that plays into professionalism and accountability.
You want to play loops under your DJ set…get a 3rd CDJ (maybe a 4th if you’re crazy). Make CDs of the loops you want to play. You won’t be able to do as much, and you have to beat match manually…but it’s still perfectly doable with a combination of stored loops and preparation. Don’t like that idea, get a groove box that can play and manipulate loops. The Octatrack can already do more than I’ve seen spoiled about Traktor’s new sample decks. Apart from track count and hosting plugins, I think it can do as much as Ableton. Well…apart from scratching the loops, that’s kinda cool.
But CDJs can do that.
Choosing what limitations you’re willing to work under gives you much better control over what you’re doing. And if you really can’t make those decisions, I want to hear you…because you’re probably the best in the world. Better than I’ve heard, at least.
There’s also a reliability component that is way more complicated (and valid, IMHO) than “computers can crash.”
Say you have this ridiculous hybrid DJ + Live Performance thing setup. You play songs, but you also play your own beats and maybe even sing or play guitar or synths or something.
If Traktor or Ableton goes down bad enough…you can’t perform. That’s not likely, but club owners might not know that, and you can’t ensure that it’ll never happen. If your octatrack goes down…you still have CDJs. The only thing that can take out the whole thing is the club’s mixer…which is also possible…but it’s not your fault. And it would have taken out the all-computer system too.
So, your cost savings directly contribute to increased risk on the part of the venue (in terms of potential fallout, not in terms of likelihood)…and it requires you to either put all your stock in a small number of tools (S4 + F1 or whatever) or put a lot of effort into making things work the way you want.
Now, I know where I fall on this. Given my druthers, I’d have a rotary mixer, 3 CDJs, 3 turntables, and a groove box. I honestly think that would give me all of the capabilities that I actually used from Ableton or Traktor…without a computer…and with direct, simple controls for everything. And the only thing that needs to be rock-solid reliable is the mixer for me to perform something. It could degrade into straight A-B DJing or straight live performance. But I can hardly imagine that much different stuff failing in a situation where anyone would hold me responsible.
I’m facing this issue with Computers and Production as well. Moving from Live to Maschine was a big jump, IMHO. I’m producing things that I’m closer to happy with because Maschine imposes some specific workflow limitations. I want to take it farther. I don’t want to be able to go through 800 kick drums, 5000 synth presets (mine or other people’s), a billion routing schemes…I think all of that just gets in the way of making music.
I want an MPC or an Octatrack and one or two powerful, hardware synths. Recall sheets scare me a lot less scary than endlessly tweaking sounds. The more I think about it, the more I realize just how much awesome music was made with the “crappy” compressors that are inside the MPCs. The crappy reverb effects in groove boxes. People made gorgeous stuff within these limitations. Why can’t I do it without them? Maybe I suck. I have to admit that possibility. But I really think that these limitless computers share some of the burden of responsibility. And I think DJing is the same way.
I’m going to buy a hardware groove box and a hardware synth…as soon as I can afford it. And I’m seriously considering a little 8-track digital recorder at the same time instead of upgrading to PT10 right away. Will I stick with it? I have no idea. But I’ll use it–at least–to record DJ sets in the future, and I think it’s worth taking the chance that it might actually help me out in the long run.
Closing Thoughts:
“A jack of all trades is a master of none…but sometimes better still than a master of one.”
The purpose of this argument isn’t to say that limitations are always the answer or that they’re the only answer. Nor do I mean to say that hardware is always better or that controllers have no place. I think each DJ and Producer has to make these decisions for himself/herself.
Computers are amazing. Reason, Logic, Pro Tools, Ableton, Maschine, Traktor, Itch, and SSL each give you so much more than the same outlay of money did even 10 years ago. They’re bringing DJing and production to the masses. I hate to think how much great music the world has lost out on because some genius electronic musician couldn’t afford a Triton, a room full of Moogs, and a big desk. We’re leaving that behind, and I honestly believe it’s for the best. But I don’t think it’s the whole story, nor do I think it’s the future for everybody.
I just think that the new generation–or the old generation that’s “moved on”–should probably give these issues some serious thought before they discount one side or the other. Similarly, I think the older generation should seriously consider the benefits of the new stuff…but there are high-end DJs already making inroads on that one…it’s just a matter of time as long as the new guys don’t completely burn all their bridges by pissing off everybody who chooses differently.
Dear christ mostapha. And I thought my post was an essay…
Very fair answer. Just booked a 1 month DJ school in order to be as good on CDJ’s and vinyls than I (hopefully) am on controllers.
I’m just doin it to be able to tell the promoter: “yes I can do my set on CDJ or vinyl, although I would totally rock it with my S4 and Midi-Fighter”. I admit than not being super confident on CDJ’s is a justified scare-off for promoters, and that’s why if you wanna go the professional way, you need to adapt. If you’re able to rock it with the midi on the first time, then you’re good. But you need to get the job in the first place and keep in mind that it is a risk for the promoter to let you play with your controllers. I myself don’t have much experience in the professional DJing scene, so correct me if I’m wrong 
IMO, learn the basic pro stuff, then master your craft.
For the op :
Mostapha already said it, but i believe it has to do with the library management. I mean for people who used to haul crates of vinyls you see the advantage right away, but it’s nothing compared to the possibility of just using some flash drives. It went from 10’s of kilos of vinyls, to a kilo of cds, to a kilo of a computer to a few grams of flash drives, neat 
The “professional” aspect is true, it’s as true as when a pair of tech was what you found in any cabin anywhere in the world. Any dj comes up, just put your vinyl on the wheel of steel and start doing you thing. With cds it’s the same thing, any venue now has some, its a standart.
As for people who use expensive cdjs as midi controllers, well i don’t get it. It’s too goddamned expensive ( even other brands “knock outs” like the new geminis and such ) to justify using them as midi controllers (lets see tomorrow the new denons, at least they have a moving platter). It’s just showing of. Plus they are really limited as far as midi controllers go.
And in a “club situation” usage, re-setting the cdjs to use them as midi controllers doesnt make sense, because as Mostapha said, you are introducing a computer in the equation, and it’s dangerous.
Who the f*** uses CDs nowadays? Digital FTW.
i still use CDJ’s, i’ve learned the dj craft on cdj’s and i actually use it, but i want to do the step into the digital-only world with controllers, and for this step its useful to switch to an “my cdj’s control my dvs” mode and still be able to play cd’s in a set.
maybe this is the reason for some people? ;o) that they come from the cdj-world and want to be able to play cd’s in the future ^^
i started on vinyl and then moved to CDs long ago (before going digital about 2 years ago), moving from vinyl to cd was okay because vinyl were really heavy and you can only bring so much, my udg bag could only contain 80 vinyls at most and the most i’d bring to gigs were 2 bags (around 150-160 vinyls), those two bags weigh a ton , at first cds were great but then burning CDs (and organizing them) became a massive headache
vinyl were really easy to organize (1-2 songs per vinyl, nice covers with different colors etc) but there was a limit on how many you could carry, CDs were easy to transport but burning CDs, printing the tracklist, and then slotting them into cd wallets were crazy, and if you wanted to re-arrange your wallet you’d have to pull each cd and each tracklist paper out (remember those days? oh man… ) ,
plus bringing two massive cd wallets (280 CDs capacity ea) and finding a particular track in a dark club (have you ever had that happen to you?) - finding one track (with a tiny handwritten paper tracklist) amongst two wallets of 280 CDs in a dark club - LoL!
so each format of course has its own (+)'s and (-)'s, on top of that people started putting their heavy cd wallets on top of the technics turntable arm which caused the turntables to require servicing, and making less turntables available at clubs
i think the CD itself is a dying medium, with pioneer pushing both rekordbox and “traktor certified” (ie the djm900 nexus and the upcoming cdj2000 nexus?), but seeing the cdj is the one thing that is most likely available at the venue, one would probably be wise to at least get used to mixing on cds only - mixing with cd’s a lot of fun! the burning cd part isnt 
haha
I think we will see more and more DJ booths making room for controllers. A few years ago they realized the need for a space for a laptop so they got a laptop stand or made room. I was in a DJ booth about a year ago that was brand new. 2 DVJ 1000’s and a SVM1000. Top of the line everything. The booth itself was located toward the back of the 2nd floor which was like a lounge area balcony overlooking the the main floor. It was a friend of a friends sports bars first weekend open. I actually ended up taking over and DJing that night using the promo only Digital jukebox system that has like a few 100,000 videos. So I didn’t even get to use the VDJs. It was a last min thing, just dropping in songs and they loved it and wanted me to DJ there but the place is 2 hours from my house and not worth the gas money to drive all the way out there. Needless to say, they spent all this money on equipment and 3 months later they have DJ’s setting up their own equipment, laptops, controllers, whatever, on the 2nd floor right in the front of the balcony so everyone can see them and the DJ can now see the crowd on the main floor and just running a line into the booth. Found out a few weeks ago that the place was broken into and the DJ equipment was stolen.
I don’t think its worth the money at this point to invest in CDJS just to use them as controllers. I think its time for pioneer to make a controller that is essentially a CDJ but can’t play cds, just control a program. I think this is where the DJ world is heading. There is always a fear of equipment not working, whether it be a turntable, CDJ, or a laptop. You try to safe guard as much as possible but best thing, get another laptop. You can get 2 decent laptops with more than enough power to handle any DJ program for the price of 1 CDJ. Most DJs that use a laptop are smart enough not to use that laptop for anything else besides DJing and keeping their music on external drives. I think in the next few years you will see the DJ booth with a mixer, SSL box, NI box, and a space for a controller or just wires coming out of a channel on the mixer to plug your controller into.
1 track per Cd, bring a 128 CD wallet and headphones…job done.
Burning cds isnt fun, nor is it a massive inconvenience…less than dealing with my laptop in a club (or travelling home through east london at 4am with a laptop) and less than lugging vinyl around.
If i was gonna use DVS with CDs id just use straight controllers, simple.
really?? how can having to look through even 128 cds for a track be less of an inconvenience than typing in the track or artist and having it pop up in 1/2 a second?
Not sure if I’m going slightly off topic here but;
Controllers got me into DJ’ing and as I’ve develped I wanted to improve my skill base so I spent a lot of time going back and forth trying to work out in my head what to buy and how to use it.
Eventually I made my mind up and bought a pair of 1210’s two weeks ago which I’m using with the S4 mainly as live inputs on decks 3 & 4. I’ve been using them to teach myself old skool beat mixing and I feel like a better more rounded person for it
What put me off CDJ’s is the functionality is not improved in comparison to controllers, infact they seem fundamentally the same to me now;
- laptop for record box / traktor
- sync button included!
- mp3’s on usb sticks = mp3’s on your hardrive
- you can use cdj’s and never use cd’s…
I cant see what cdj’s give me that the S4 doesn’t. However, really enjoying the Technics, working out what records to buy and taking the time to think about it is more challenging than hitting the download button, and that’s a good thing
For some people, it’s easier to remember spatial relationships than arbitrary information. I still know where specific tracks are in my CD wallet that I haven’t played in 3 years from the last time I packed it. I don’t remember any of the artist names on my last mix and apart from tracks where the title was also the lyrics for the main vocal hook, I remember one track name.
If you have a CD printer and the software to put cover art on your CDs, it’s even easier…I also remember several tracks that I loved only by the vinyl sleeve. I don’t know the artist, title, BPM, or anything else, but I see the sleeve in my head when I want to play it.
It’s harder to do that with traktor when the cover art is so small.
well that reply was very Sheldon Cooper of you. People do remember certain things in certain ways and remember where a CD is in their CD wallet, front, back, middle. I don’t remember the names of a lot of tracks these days because of the shear volume of music I get. 20 years ago I would buy 5 records every other week and play them to death so I know them back and forth. I used a metronome to time them out and my records were kept in BPM order. Easier to find things by what the sleeve looked like but who is going to take time to burn a cd and actually make some kind of cover art to stick on it? The cover art in Traktor is small and most downloads from record pools don’t have cover art anyway, and I am not going to attach some random pic to every mp3. Even still, open your cd wallet to the middle. Its a garuntee that I can type the artist, the track, or even just half the track name and find it and load it and having it playing before you take that cd out of the sleeve.
MY point, MOST people would find it easier to just type the track name or artist then pull out a cd wallet and have to find a cd. You can argue with variables and there are always going to be variables but the majority of the time you will find this to be true.
For someone who grew up with iPods and actually knew artists and track names, yes.
I can’t list the track names on most of my favorite albums. But if you tell me “track 3 on whatever” I can just start singing.