I just don’t understand how that’s the least bit convenient compared to just having the hardware.
Cheaper, yes, but how many times do people have to say “you get what you pay for” before anyone takes heed.
Well in this case it really is comparable as far as sound quality. And how is it not anymore convenient? It’s pretty straight forward. Mapping out a midi controller isn’t that hard, and once you do have your mapping you just save it to your template and be done with it.
Assuming you have a solid interface and the rest of your signal chain isn’t lacking, the sound is so spot on when comparing the two it’s a mute point to argue that anymore.
And then people go on about how they hate using a mouse, just scoop up some midi controllers like said. It’s not as “sexy” but it’s efficient (only time this wouldn’t be practical would be with synths where you have to run patch cables ala a Moog Modular or Arp2600 just to name a few but even then the benefits of having the soft version should still be obvious).
Plus you can do a lot more unique stuff that really isn’t practical with just a single analog synth. You can have multiple instances of it running on a single channel, all playing the same notes but with different ADSR settings on the amp and filter for each one to create truly unique and original sounds. And this is just ONE example that I came up with.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I wish I could afford a Moog Voyager with multiple Slim Phatty’s synced up to it so I could have a poly Moog, but I’m perfectly content on using the Minimonsta from G-Force.
And these are just the soft analog emulators. There’s a lot of cool “original” digital synths out there as well like Massive and Razor from NI, or the Rob Papen line. They don’t have to make any compromises if you will when designing a synth because they aren’t trying to copy any analog synth at all.
And yes, I do agree with that you do get what you paid for, but in this instance you’re paying for some “prestige” of saying you own the actual analog synth. That’s it, nothing more.
Yeah…I disagree. Dune, for example, has like 50 controls that I’d like mapped to knobs before even looking at the modulation matrix or the arpeggiator. So, that’s 2 pages of a BCR2000, which makes it hard to map. The virus C has 32 knobs that are physical knobs and some of them do other things as well. The Virus Editor, a plugin that allows you to control it from a computer, looks like this:
That’s a lot of knobs.
Unless I’m really missing something, mapping a controller isn’t practical if you want physical labels. I’ve seriously considered it, but unless I can find a good deal on a used BCR2000 to try, I don’t think it’s all that convenient. I’ve mapped my lpd8 to control synths before, and despite having 32 knobs available (with it’s 4 available programs, or basically pages) it’s so incredibly hard to remember what’s on each knob without labels…and labels basically aren’t possible…that it’s not worth worrying about.
I’m going to have to very seriously consider whether it’s worth not being able to carry my entire production rig (minus monitors, of course) in my back pack like I do now (with just a MBP and a Maschine) before I actually start buying hardware……but the times I’ve played with hard synths (Virus C, TI, TI2; Nord Lead 2x; Nord Stage 2; Minimoog Voyager Electric Blue; and a few others) good sounds just come out of them. It’s not a technical limitation…it’s just something about having the physical knobs sitting there that makes sense to me. I honestly enjoy using Maschine’s Sampler device with waveforms more than Dune…despite the fact that it’s only a single oscillator and very limited in terms of modulation and routing.
Don’t get me wrong, I like Dune for what it is. And I keep thinking about trying Razor despite not liking NI’s software in general (seriously considering switching to an MPC-1000 at some point). But unless I actually figure out a better way to map controls for synths, it’s just not worth the money. I’ve seriously considered a Remote Zero SLmk2 just to see how well automap works and whether that would fix some of my issues.
And this is with having Maschine and it’s auto-mapping available and working. Maybe I should get around to actually naming Dune’s controls logically in Maschine……but that just seems like a lot of work for something else I’m not going to like.
A good bass synth (the Moog Taurus stands out) and some other poly VA (Nord Rack 2 is winning at this point, but I wouldn’t say no to a Virus or a Prophet if I could find one I can afford) and I’d be happy. I don’t mind recording things to audio (in fact, I kind of prefer it) so not having enough voices to run an entire song (multiple patches) off one hard synth isn’t a problem……as long as it has enough voices to play one part, that’s good enough.
Now, if you were talking about things like most of the DSI synths (other than the Prophet) that don’t have enough knobs, it’d be a different issue. And I agree with you about sound quality. I’m not an analog purist by any stretch of the imagination. You don’t even really need good converters to work all ITB…you just need one decent pair out for monitoring, which is really cheap to get at this point.
Hardware is a lot more expensive, and you have to know more about what you’re doing to even have a chance of getting it right. But I don’t think that’s a huge problem either. I just really hate mice. I hate tweaking synths with Mice…I hate programming with a mouse…I prefer Maschine’s grid/step sequencer to any piano roll I’ve used, despite it’s obvious shortcomings. If you don’t have that problem. If you don’t go out of your way to not have to use a mouse to browse the web…if you don’t use Terminal more than any other program on your laptop…if you don’t have a preference for which shell you use…if you don’t seriously prefer vim or emacs to TextEdit or Notepad……go software. It’s more cost effective and can sound at least as good and will sound less noisy. If you’re on a budget, soft synths are the only way to go. But I still think they all suck.
To be honest, never looked at the Virus software. That is bloody insane how much they pack in there, I don’t blame you for not wanting to map out that hog! 
As for a good bass synth, get a Moog Minitaur. Exact same thing as the Moog Taurus except half the price and minus the foot pedals.
But I still think you should have a go at the modular scene. With the prices coming down the barrier to get into it is getting smaller everyday. Plus you’ll have a completely unique and original sound that’s all your own. And you can always keep adding to it at minimal cost vs having to buy a whole new synth when you get the itch to splurge
Jason - where can one get a new Minituar? They don’t seem to be in stock anywhere.
I don’t think they’re in stores yet. If they’ve shipped, they’re still filling preorders.
The Moog Taurus was responsible for a LOT of awesome bass sounds, and the Minitaur is supposed to be EXTREMELY close except a desktop unit with MIDI and CV in and out. It pre-sold like hot cakes laced with crack and will probably be hard to get for a whole after it’s ship date.
It’s on my list. But it’s also explicitly a bass synth…can’t play above middle c. And if I have one hard synth, I may as well have 2, and an audio interface that actually does them justice, and some decent preamps to get the most I can out of them, an the list goes on. Hardware gets expensive quick.
They have shipped, had a chance to use one in the shop, but they are only being shipped out for pre-orders at the moment like Mostapha said.
Also, they are a lot smaller in person.
+It’s a lot more fun actually to grab some knobs instead of using the mouse all the day
+Your room looks more like a nice studio with some gear around there
+Much easier to sell if you want to get rid of it.
+Reasonable amount of knobs (that physically exist) instead of these loads of knobs in softwares for which your midicontroller’s knobs won’t suffice
+Probably will still be usable in 20 years when software types, host softwares, operating systems and computer connectors will have changed.
This thread kinda got sidetracked, yes of course we all would love to have Moog Voyagers, or Nord Leads or Viruses but not everyone is daddy warbucks here. This is supposed to be a discussion about everyone’s favorite software synths, not software vs hardware.
For the record, I am saving up currently for a Virus TI myself. But in the mean time, I’m having a blast playing with the software I have available.
I’ve gotten to enjoy the free TAL stuff…the price is right and they sound okay. I like the one that’s based on an SH-101…TAL-Bassline or something.
Following T’s suggestion, I tried Synplant. Really cool idea. It’s going to be in my next track (I should probably get around to buying it…still just using the demo…or at least record what I’ve done with it…no idea when the demo’s going to run out).
And I still like Synapse Dune…sounds great…with one big caveat. Unfortunately, it’s parameters are named such stupid things that it’s impossible to use with Maschine’s controls…I’d imagine AutoMap and whatever the M-Audio keyboards do would be similar unless you can rename things in software, which Maschine can’t do. Unfortunately, Dune working this way means that I’ll never register the Demo and I’m looking for a replacement.
Also…mapping things like that does work……as long as your controller has scribble strips and the parameters are named something useful. Makes soft synths usable, at least.
I really like FL studio’ 3xosc. Really simple yet powerful tool.
Big fan of TAL’s stuff as well, not so much the Bassline one as I am of the Juno 106 remake they have. So smooth and epic sounding, and the chorus buttons are just buttery smooth
The TAL stuff is great, esp. enjoying the Juno as well.
I used Massive loads before, but it got replaced by my Blofeld not too long ago.
The other softsynths I use are synplant, for whenever I am unable to come up with anything, FM8, which is hands down the best FM-softsynth, Sylenth for those bread and butter sounds and probably U-He ACE for that analog sound (thinking of getting me something to take over that part tho).
V. Big fan of NI Massive!
Recently moved from a cracked version of FL Studio when I got some £££ from my student loan and bought Cubase 6.5 (Student Edition) and Massive. Best investment I have made so far this year! 
Rob Papen has a new one called Blade, its a special price offer untill end of May maybe something to have a look at to 
my go to synth is sylenth1/Massive/FM8 but lately i’ve been using rob papen predator a lot - really gritty, grainy synth, good for dub stuff!
My mate showed me this recently, really awesome synth. Can’t think of anything better to replace, except for Diva maybe.
Yeah that’s an older third party editor for the Virus B/C not the official one for the Ti. The Ti Control VST is really nice, clean, and straight forward. The virus is a really deep synth and the Ti control is nice to have in addition to the hardware since on the hardware itself there is a lot of menu diving and some things are easier done in ti control- I use both. The Ti control is really well thought out as a compliment to the hardware.
I’m screwed if I ever go eurorack. It’s dangerous for people like me.
For soft synths I’m debating picking up FM8, I really only want an FM synth for techy sub bass sounds and don’t know of any better options.