Hardware VA Synths

Performance & Techniques Music Production
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Hardware VA Synths

(full disclosure: crossposted from DJF, please don’t reply to both threads)

So…I’m not ready to buy yet. It’ll be some time this summer. But, does anyone have any legitimate comparisons of the big (affordable) VA synths that I could maybe start looking for used. Please don’t suggest soft synths. I’ve tried the big ones and mostly can’t get good results out of them because I seem to have a mental block against turning knobs with a mouse.

Big considerations:




Yes, I’m only talking about one of them. And I know the TI2 is a “better” synth, but it’s probably a bit out of my price range.

Big selling points/needs:

A good, extensive arpeggiator would be really cool.

Rhythm-based parameter locks (or something like that) would be cool, but again, I might be able to do that with Maschine.

Sound I’m looking for:

General subtractive synth sounds. Variability is the key. I’m considering getting either a Minibrute or Minitaur as well, so the warm monophonic bass sound would be covered. I also know the Radias is basically an updated MS-2000B, but price is sorta-kinda a factor and I do like the sounds I’ve heard come out of it. Lots of control on the unit itself without too many menus is a need.

My favorite soft synth so far is Aivd Hybrid, I just hated controlling it with the mouse and never had the right controller for it…you know, if that matters, since I think most people haven’t really used it.

I’ll be recording into Logic/PT10 or sampling into Maschine, not that it matters too much, or just playing it with Maschine. And producing something like Deep House at the moment, though I’d like to be able to use it for Chicago/Funky house and Breaks as well. I’ll probably be buying a preamp of some kind with it as well (leader ATM is 2 channels of GAP73s, which are Neve 1073 clones) and would like to say I’m going to get compressors as well, but I probably won’t afford that in hardware.

Comments from anyone who’s used more than one of them, the sounds you got out of them, experience working with them…that’d be appreciated as well as suggestions for things that I haven’t considered yet.

I don’t need a keyboard and am specifically looking for rack/tabletop units. I have my crappy keyboard as well as access to an ePiano that outputs MIDI and has fully weighted, sprung keys that actually feels like a crappy piano instead of a crappy keyboard…if I ever learn how to play Piano. I’ll probably have Maschine outputting MIDI and recording the audio into a DAW or sampling sounds off playing it with a KB into Maschine.

And, again, I’m not interested in soft synths. I’m up to my ears in soft synths that I can’t get good sounds out of. And, I have gotten better results playing sampled waveforms in Maschine’s sampler (which has a similar routing/control structure to these…amp envelop, filter envelop, a sync’d or free LFO, Overdrive, velocity → stuff, modwheel → stuff, etc.).

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ms2000 is pretty awesome, as is the radias. i think the radias is the best deal for the money - sounds better then the 2000, has more modulation features, better arp, better filter, better fx, display is more usable, both are multi timbral the 2k has 2 parts with the radias is 4 parts… go for the radias. no complaints with the virus ti except you can buy like 3 radias for one virus. if you really want to skimp on money the 2000 in combo with a sampler/ sequencer like maschine can do a lot of fun shit - the radias can just do a lot more for marginally more.

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Virus Cs tend to go for about the same as the Radias. I know I can’t afford a TI or TI2.

And thanks, that about matches my research thus far. Always nice to hear a real person, though. I’m pretty sure the Radias would win out over the MS2000B unless someone has some horror stories or something.

Any comparison to the Nord Lead/Rack series in your experience? It’s the one I know the least about.

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Maybe you need a better control surface than a mouse? iPad + Lemur App + Midi Keyboard?

I just think it’s silly to buy a hardware VA synth when it’s just a control thing. Spend a day doing some quality mapping and never think about it again. But, that’s just me.

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I own Lemur and TouchOSC and have used them on my iPhone and my friend’s iPad2. I deleted them.

I know this is hard to understand on DJTT, but I like hardware. And I’d rather spend money than map controllers again. My time and happiness are worth more than a few hundred bucks.

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Not the same at all.

Synths should have knobs so touch is out. And generic midi mapping some controller to a synth is not the same as using a real synth that has been designed decently because people have to use it hands on.

Also you really can’t map most software synths the way you are thinking. There are intricate menus and stuff and most don’t have that kind of midi mapping capabilities. The best you will do in a lot of cases is map a few macro knobs, not enough to do sound design purely on a controller.

If a company made a software synth with a full controller to go with it kind of like maschine I would be all over it, but midi mapping something isn’t the same.

I want some sort of hardware synth too but it’s a lot of cash and I have no idea what I would want either.

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HArdware synth guy myself, as much as I love the sound of some virtual synths, nothing comes close to dedicated knobs. In terms of an all around general purpose synth my own vote would be for the best Virus desktop you can afford, as those have comparitively more features for the price and sound great.

The Radias would be my second choice.

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What are the advantages of a VA synth like a virus desktop over a similarly (or cheaper) priced polyphonic analog desktop synth like a Prophet 08 with 8 voices? I know there is computer software for it that allows synth control similar to the virus as well.

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VA synths usually have a lot more features, and way more voices.

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I have had an MS2k and an R3, which has the same sound engine as the radius.

I quite like the sound of the MS2k. It is nice, dark, and gravely. Great for hard leads and big dirty bass. Not so great for warm pads or soft/layered bass lines.

The Radius is quite the opposite. It is soft but cold, as if you sanded off the rough bits of the MS2k. Nice for spacey or ariy leads. The Radius has better pads than the MS2k, but still not that great. The Radius has pretty nice built in effects; I use the tape delay a lot.

The arpeggiator on the Radius has some nice features. You can set a number of arp steps then turn some pf them off, eg you could have a 7 step pattern, but notes only play on steps 1, 4, and 6.

I think the MS2k would be a good compliment to the Minitaur, and the Radius would be a good compliment to the Minibrute.

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Why didn’t I post this on ALDF, again? I’ll correct that.

If I can find one, I can maybe afford a C some time this summer. AFAIK, that loses FM and the plugin IO compared to the TI/TI2.

I think that was what I was leaning towards anyway…I just wanted some options and have heard a lot of people on GS that liked the nords.

In your opinion, what puts the radias behind it?

I was under the impression that the ms2k and radias were more similar than that, baring some updates.

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This thread has got me looking at viruses and I’m intrigued. I was thinking I wanted an actual analog synth but I can’t ignore what the virus offers with VST integration and general versatility- looks exactly like what I’ve been wanting. I might have to skip out on buying CDJs.

So I know the Virus TI and Ti2 run the same OS but does the C run the latest too? Do they all run the same version of the VST plug in as well?

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No, the C is different. It uses different lower end D/A (some people think it’s warmer), and it loses out a lot on the number of effects and kinds of voices it can run. The Ti’s can to delay AND reverb on each part of instance/

I’ve had 5 Virii over the years (was on the beta team for years) and the TI2 was the best of them all IMO. I liked the way the C looked though, I loved that red LCD.

Personally, I always ignore the whole VST plug in aspect except for backing up my patches. It worked for the most part, but if I spend that much for a hardware synth, I want to use it like a hardware synth. If I want to use a plug in, I’m better off just using Omnisphere or Zebra2. Which ultimately is what I did.

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have you seen this?

Touch Digital Controllers makes a hardware controller for the soft synth ImpOSCar 2 with full integration.

600×450 28.9 KB

Here’s a review of both the software and the hardware controller.

The controller is expensive but it’s pretty cool that it exists since I was looking for something like that- tons of knobs. I’ll probably just get a virus but so many knobs…

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With shipping, it’s also 900 quid.

For that money, I could get a DSI Prophet 08 or a Radias and upgrade to PT10 and buy a Big Knob. And I think that doesn’t include the cost of the plugin.

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Yeah don’t get me wrong I wouldn’t buy it for that price, it’s just a cool idea and too bad no one makes controllers like that in the $300-$400 range since there might be demand for it and it would solve some of the problems with VSTs.

As a side note- I would look at an MSC1 over a big knob for a home studio. Let’s you switch between two sets of monitors, toggle a sub, has multiple inputs, has a big volume control knob, and also has room analysis and correction software that automatically creates room filters that you can toggle on and off on the unit for the same price as a a mackie big knob. http://www.jblpro.com/MSC1/MSC1_Overview.html

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The big knob doesn’t require software. And I don’t really believe in room analysis like that, mostly because those RTA mics aren’t like ears. Plus, I learned a long time ago that same price + more features usually means less quality. If nothing else, it looks like the crossover is digital (digitally controlled abalog hardware might be too expensive for that price point). At any rate, the EQ is, which I wouldn’t have a problem with except tht it defeats the purpose of good converters on the output side.

I think the big knob is about the cheapest thing I’d want to use for that kind of thing. And I haven’t completely decided on it as opposed to just saving up for something better anyway.

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To me they sound quite different. I like the Radius much better form some tasks. But it is a very personal thing.

Once you stick these in a mix with 4 or 5 other parts, any of the synths you listed will be difficult to identify. All of them sound good, and you can make great music with each of them.

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It only needs software to calibrate the room once then the filters get stored on the unit and it can be disconnected from the computer and you can toggle the filters on and off. As far as room correction stuff goes, it’s just one more step after room treatment to identify problem frequencies in the room where it resonates and apply a filter for that frequency-I don’t think it tries to EQ the monitors to get them to sound closer to what the mic is reading. Anyway, fair points on the other stuff I guess the crossover is digital and it is going through another DA conversion- didn’t even think to look at that.

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RTA stuff all works the same way…play an impulse or a chirp, devise an EQ to try and get close to the source. If the mic isn’t like a human head, it gets different results. Plus, EQs are phase distortions, so you’re introducing a lot of weird stuff that might have other negative effects. Plus, it only corrects for the resonant frequencies of the room, which you can calculate. It does nothing for reflections and stereo imaging problems.

I don’t think it’s worth the hassle. Plus…I think it’s pointless. If I were getting ready to publish a track, I’d send it to a mastering engineer. If I were confident enough in my production, I’d pay to mix it in a recording studio with NS-10s and good mains with a sub instead of my RP5s and a room “treated” by leaving the closets open and not cleaning up huge piles of crap in the corners. I’m a long way off 'till that matters. Getting close to being able to release something on soundcloud, but that’s a completely different animal.

@jack, that’s kind of what I’m gathering. I’m probably going to try to save up for a virus and see which ones I can find to play with in the mean time. But it’ll probably come down to what I can find when I actually have the money.