Gain vs. Volume Faders
Hey all,
So I was wondering what the advantages to using gain vs. volume faders or vice verse was.
In other words which is more suited for specific tasks.
my style of mixing which is lots of quick cuts means I use the volume faders to introduce tracks and take away elements. I use auto gain and have the limiter engaged so the use of the gain is very minimal.
The gain and the volume are two totally different things.
There are a bunch of resources with the search function.
Like this, this, and this.
that’s a start.
Yeah I read most of those. But I still didn’t understand the difference. I do but there are things that I still don’t understand. I’ll just have to do more research
Okay, well, then this is the main difference.
The Gain is raises the volume of the incoming signal. So, for example, you have two tracks playing that were mastered to different volumes. While DJing you want the outgoing levels to remain constant. The easiest way to do that is to boost the incoming signal to a standard level. While watching the VU meter (as long as you have a Pre-Fader-Limit measure) you will see the levels going up and down with the Gain. That’s the incoming decibels of the track. That’s the incoming signal. If those are the same the volume adjustments will be minimal.
You adjust the volume to control the Outgoing signal. It is the amount of decibels that are outgoing from the mixer to the master volume. The idea is that these can be static, not needing to be moved at all (assuming you use the crossfader). Now these two also work in tandem. So, if you up the gain too much you’ll be pumping a stretched signal through the mixer, causing it to distort. You can turn the volume down but the signal will still sound distorted. If you pull the gain down too much and pump the volume you’ll have a lower cap on how loud it can get.
Also, your EQ colors the sound before it hits the faders. So if you feel like the signal is too weak, but you don’t want to pump the gain anymore you can add a little bass or highs and fix the feeling. If you pump the EQ too much you will red line quicker and need to adjust with your gain.
This is non-scientific and just from my practice. Yes, do more research, there are tons of resources around. But that’s the basic understanding.
Nicely explained mate. Makes perfect sense.
damn :eek:, and i was just gonna put gain is volume and fader fades or/and chops the track in and out. 
Signal → Gain → Filters/EQ → Fader → Output
So the output is the result of the sound produced after the fader has had a go with the signal.
The fader modifies the signal it gets from the filters and EQ, which on their hand mess with the signal they get after gain has been adjusted.
…and gain starts with the base signal (the track).
Very simply, gain is used to make sure that your tracks play at the same volume when the volume level is all the way. And is used to make sure you dont accidentally clip the output when ramming the volume fader up.
I use gain sometimes with my crossfader to gradually fade out a song when mixing. I like the feel and I find it gives more precision when fading out a song, but I guess thats just my own personal style.
As long as you are very conscious about your levels it should be okay…
I had a guest DJ at my weekly that abused the gains so much that she blew out one of the Mackies. Every time she attempted to mix she would crank over each time so much that after a couple tracks she had everything redlined. I had to stand there the whole time and keep returning her gains back down because she would constantly lose track of their position. The sound guy was threatening to turn everything off if I didn’t get it under control.
So if volume faders only control fading in and out couldn’t u just crank each fader all the way to the top and use your gains to adjust volume level during a mix?
That wouldn’t be the correct way to do it.
In your headphones… and by using level lights (if your mixer has them), you should adjust the gain as one of the first things you do after loading the track.
The gain should be adjusted so that when the volume fader is all the way to the top, both tracks will be the same volume. Traktor Pro attempts to do this for you, but it doesn’t always get it right.
Anyhow, once you get the gains set to be the same level, you can do cross fader tricks… like slam the cross-fader left or right to play ever other beat of the incoming track. Or do patterns with the volume fader.
You’ll never be able to make that sound right if you only use the gains as you described.
The gains are supposed to be used to normalize the signal. There are so many mixing techniques and ways of controlling a blend, you should at least know the levels of the tracks are equal when needed. If you rely on the gains for mixing you can easily over or under power your mix.
Can you do it? Sure. you can also mix with EQ, your crossfader, your volume faders, you can run your booth out into the amp and mix between your master our and your headphone out.
You can also not.
Most modern mixers have VU meters that give you a reference point so you’ll know when you are overloading the input signal. Use the gain control to optimize the signal coming in the mixer each time you introduce a new track in the set; running the signal so that it just “pips” 0db, will give you the best signal possible, and provide needed headroom in the event the track hits a very hard note.
10db
9
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0-------------This is where you want to try and keep the signal as often as possible. Going above this area for too long a time can begin to result in clipping/ distortion.
-1
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10db
"That wouldn’t be the correct way to do it.
In your headphones… and by using level lights (if your mixer has them), you should adjust the gain as one of the first things you do after loading the track.
The gain should be adjusted so that when the volume fader is all the way to the top, both tracks will be the same volume. Traktor Pro attempts to do this for you, but it doesn’t always get it right.
Anyhow, once you get the gains set to be the same level, you can do cross fader tricks… like slam the cross-fader left or right to play ever other beat of the incoming track. Or do patterns with the volume fader.
You’ll never be able to make that sound right if you only use the gains as you described."
Isn’t that the same as what I said, sorry i’m just confused and not seeing the difference.
(without meaning to sound like a dick)
no one should ever use gains for the actual mixing, use them to ensure the volume of each track is consistent/equal and that you aren’t overloading anything. do this once the track is loaded, and only do this in your headphones.
after that the faders are used to control the balance within in the mix itself, i.e fade the track in or out of the mix, hence why it is called a fader.
however; there are then several ways you can use the faders (once the gains are correctly set). here are some examples off the top of my head
a) leave them at full (all way up) and just use the cross fader to switch.
b) leave crossfader in the middle and mix with faders
c) some kind of combination of the above 2
d) as a, but chop the x-fade in/out on the snares or every beat, wait for a nice drop point in the current track and then slam them together
e) as b, but chop the channel fader in/out as in d
if during a mix something starts to sound muddy/distorted you’ll either need to drop the fader of the previous track a bit, or adjust the eq’s - your choice, and can give different results.
this will be a result of the combined sound signals and nothing specifically to do with the gain (unless you have set it wrong), which is why i run my master at -7db, gives me some elbow room to deal with a clash before it goes wrong in an epic way.
i find knocking the bass out of the new track on fade in, then swithing the bass over on each track works to counter that initially. but that also depends on if i’m doing a long or short mix - i use different fader combinations and general controls for different styles of transitions.
to sum up. how you combine the tracks, using faders (channel and cross), eq’s or effects is up to you. but make sure the gain is correctly set on each track and only touch it when loading the next track.
and a handy tip, jump to a meaty middle section of the track to set the gains, it can be perfect when in a beat/perc section but as soon as a bit of warped sub bassline hits it can push the levels through the roof.
an after thouht;
are you using the gains in this way because you’d prefer a rotary fader? if so why not remap your controller, so the gain knob is a fader and the fader is gain? you would have to do a remap though so they are controlling the correct bits.
or look into taking the fader out and replacing it with a big chunky knob, connections would be similar if you get hold of a rotary fader, so don’t see why it wouln’t work?
My next question with in regards to gains is that. I can’t seem to go to high with them because my levels jump into the red. Again i’m using the Korg Km-202. On default setting (Master and gains set at 12 o’clock.) My tracks easily jump into the red at about 5 and 6 on the line fader. The only way to prevent this is by turning down my gains by a large amount but then it’s very quiet.