A+H fanboy here, and I just want to agree on the Pio 900. I played a gig on one and was really impressed with the sound quality. The filter effect sounded dope, and the layout of the effects was extremely intuitive and DJ-focused, if limited. I’d have no complaints about having that mixer, and I might even agree that it would be a better choice than the 92, at least if you wanted to use Traktor. But the 4-band EQ on the 92 is sweet; sometimes when I mix internally using a VCI-100 I use the 4-band option in traktor just to mix with the high-mids. I’ve heard of a few problems with the Pio 900 that might make me steer clear, but sound quality really isn’t one of them.
just because a product is digital, doesn’t mean it sounds better. The d/a & a/d convertors can significantly ‘warm up’ a sound (introduce pleasing subtle harmonics/distortion) which digital mixers have trouble emulating. No loss in quality doesn’t necessarily mean that it will sound better. When you’re dealing with digital music through a digital mixer, sometimes a bit of A&H analogue warmth can do wonders (even if technically you’re degrading the sound).
There is something to be said for the A&H sound - especially those filters ![]()
Totally agree with this too. I have a lot of love for analogue, I started on vinyl 20 years ago.
I’m just saying the 800 and 900 don’t sound like crap and the reason is cause they are digital and use high end components.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like A&H mixers a well as Rane and Vestax etc. in fact my RGAS is making me eye up a rane empath rotary. But the 800 and 900 are proper decent mixers with good features and a lot going for them, 900 especially.
I just hate blind fanboyism. Does my head in!
Question - How is someone that has used both mixers giving an opinion that the 92 is better “fanboyism”?
Answer - it isnt.
The 900 is Pioneer’s first mixer that isn’t a sick joke. And it ain’t worth 2 grand. Not by a long shot.
I get differences of opinion, I really do! Some people like the colour red… some people prefer blue.
But i’ve been djing for 20 years, in all sorts of clubs on massive systems using pioneers and A&H mixers. I got a decent set of KRK VXT4 monitors so I can hear if something sounds good or shit.
I have good ears, I do.
Calling the 800 a “sick joke” I mean seriously… why? I got one yeah… you think that makes me the butt of the sick joke? That i’m sitting there listening to a load of shit and I can’t tell? That i’ve used A&H mixers and not been able to notice the “angel” like quality of the sound cause i’m some kind of sunglasses at night effect twiddling knob jockey? I’m not, trust me.
It’s a digital mixer, it sounds like the song that’s playing. Pioneer are not total mugs, clubs instal their mixers, top djs use em. Crowds are not turning away in their droves from clubs and bars with DJMs installed.
Prefer A&H mixers if you want, debate the subtle difference in warmth and sound quality that you can hear because that makes you feel like some kind of audiophile ear wizard. But if there is a difference it is very very subtle certainly not some sick joke!
Don’t be a mixer nazi.
Personally I still think vinyl sounds better than digital, and WAVs/AIFFs sound better than 320 mp3s but I’m not going to lament anyone who disagrees as some kind of fucking idiot.
These things are subtle nuances, not cast iron facts.
Peace
So you are the owner of a Pioneer mixer who defends Pioneer mixers out here, but you are NOT a fan boy. While owners of A&H mixers who defend them out here, ARE fan boys. Got it. ![]()
I’m defending Pioneers yeah but i’m not blindly attacking A&H mixers. I’m not attacking anything in fact. I like A&H mixers.
^^ This is a load of rubbish, sorry. Your saying most djs have no clue about sound quality and headroom etc. Well I do and I can tell you that sound quality on the djm 800, 900, 2000 is really good and they have loads of headroom.
^^This is non fanboy talk from an A&H owner.
Do you see the difference or not?
People come to these forums for information. If someone doesn’t counter the rubbish you said then someone might actually believe it to be true.
LOL
You cant possibly be serious in sitting here and saying the sound quality and headroom is fine on DJM mixers. Just saying that out loud renders the rest of your opinions null and void.
Wow!
The sound quality and headroom is fine on the DJM 800 onwards (excluding DJM600 and below).
It’s not my opinion it’s a fact ![]()
If you’re playing into the red the whole time and need that headroom then you’re a total amateur anyway ![]()
The digital DJMs are fine mixers in terms of sound quality and reliability. Before the 900, they don’t feel good enough to justify their price bracket, in my opinion. A&H do, despite their quirks.
And I’ll agree that I don’t get A&H’s sound quality reputation…they don’t sound bad, but they don’t sound any better than basically anything else “not crap” that I’ve used. But I’m weird. I think most DJ mixers sound like crap and honestly prefer digital summing…as long as the controller (whether it’s the djm-800 controlling its internal DSP or a midi controller talking to Traktor or whatever) feels at least as good as you can get from real mixers.
And not having headroom is a horrible reason to use a mixer. Just mix right.
Not having enough headroom means the mixer goes into the red (distortion) much too soon.
If you mix on any Pioneer (the 900 included), you will find you are in the red much sooner than on a Rane or A&H. Set up a Rane / A&H / Pioneer on the same sound system, you will be into the red on the Pioneer and still have very little volume pushing through the sound system. Hook up and A&H and you can turn it up much higher, while still remaining out of the red.
As for digital mixers sounding better than analog…I cant see how anyone could feel that way, but that is personal preference.
Headroom on digital mixers vs analogue mixers discussed here by professionals.
DJM800 is mentioned
This is what TJ Hertz, DSP developer at Native Instruments has to say.
“Analog mixers might start to soft-saturate before they hit the top of the meter, but only quite subtly. Digital mixers will typically not noticeably distort until they hit their rated maximum, which could even be past the end of the meter (actually, in the case of the DJM800 I think there’s something like two more extra red LEDs of headroom, more on the DJM900)”
In “my opinion” this renders “your opinions” null and void
Now, I don’t think that I’m a Xone fanboy as such (don’t own any A&H products), but if you ask me, the filters alone make the Xones worth it. That said, I think this thread has taken a fairly nasty turn.
I will take the opinion of Tony Andrews at Function 1 over some schmuck at NI - but whatever.
LOL @ “schmuck” at NI.
Yeah he’s bound to not have a clue what he’s talking about.
It’s funktion one btw ![]()
Yup the filters are the best in the business. I love em and better than the filters on the DJM800 for sure.
For the record (and skim readers out there) I’m clearly not hating on A&H. The 92 is a wicked mixer, used it loads and love it.
I’m just trying to dispel some of the unfounded anti pioneer nonsense often perpetuated by A&H fanboys tis all.
OP enjoy your 92 and I look forward to your totally blinkered opinions on it in a few months time ![]()
Sure you never had a typo either dick.
Among other people, the recording engineer that did the music for the recent harry potter movies preferred digital from the mics 'till the final DAC before the amp.
As for the headroom thing…uhh…BS. First, A&H are quiet as hell…they’re normalized to -10, not +4. Second, line level is line level…as long as you know which standard you’re working with. One mixer is not louder than another…it’s just a matter of whether you’re hitting the amp right based on what kind of input it’s expecting.
mostapha ever heard of total harmonic distortion and s/n ratio?
Allen and Heath 92 betters BOTH of those numbers vs. the Pioneer 800 - so by that fact alone, the Pioneer mixer introduces more noise.
A cleaner signal will ALWAYS sound louder - that was what I was talking about.
I love, Vestax, Ecler, and Rane, who needs 4 channels and effects?
If I ever get a 4 channel mixer it will be this
So yeah both A&H and Pioneer can suck it