Before you read this: by writing this I’m not saying that I’m some super crazy DJ, I still have a lot to learn myself. This is just something I’ve felt for a long time and I’d like to get some insight on how other people feel about this. Also, I’m talking mostly about club djing here.
edit: after some discussion, i realized the thread title was a little misleading. just because a dj isn’t technical doesn’t make them a bad dj, and thats not what I’m going for here
I got a chance to see dj spinbad and dj starting from scratch over the weekend (they played a set at a Russell Peters show). Their set was AMAZING and blew my mind. They were doing something truly artistic and were essentially making something new on stage. Slick cuts, juggling, acapellas, etc. It made me think, why isn’t the standard for djs a little bit higher? Why aren’t big touring djs and resident djs expected to put some skill into what they do?
Overall, I think its safe to say that the majority of djs don’t really engage in the technical aspects of djing; they don’t necessarily “make” something new, they often just beat match between two tunes and call it a day. Some people like to pat themselves on the back for beatmatching, phase matching, phrase matching, etc. but as A-trak said: no one ever complimented a dj on how artistically they beat match. Spending a week learning basic beat matching and having an interest in a specific genre of music (which is something virtually something everyone has) is basically enough to make a mix that would be considered “acceptable”. I find that a lot of djs just reach this acceptable level and then don’t feel the need to learn beyond that.
Does anyone else see a problem with this? Everyone complains about aoki, guetta, etc. jut hitting play, but how many regular djs do anything more than that? Along with this, its almost become the standard for people to think of djs as “record player players”. I was reading the paper this morning and the review of the show stated “also appearing was DJ Sarting from Scratch and DJ Spinbad but neither brought much to the evening as canned music would have easily filled the same role”. After perhaps dj craze, these guys played the craziest set I’ve seen in my life. Tonnes of live mashes, cutting etc. between each other all by ear. They were incredibly technical and not messy in the slightest. Also they were about 20 feet away from eachother so they couldn’t communicate or screen peak. Because we’ve set the standard so low, DJs who are actually talented don’t get the props they deserve. Because the majority of DJs themselves are ok with being at the “acceptable” level (and don’t strive to do anything necessarily creative), people don’t seem to make a distinction between a quality dj and your average joe.
sorry for the novel, just something I wanted to discuss here opinions?
Sounds so true to me.
It’s a shame there are even some people out their getting money for setting up playlists that are then played by the software via auto-transition.
You’re not going to be doing a lot of scratching playing EDM. It sounds like you’re asking guys who play house to be more like hip-hop DJs/turntablists. They’re 2 different ways of going about being a DJ.
doesn’t mean you can’t be creative though. look at jeff mills and carl cox. also i think scratching can go really well with some kinds of electronic music, laidback luke is a great example
Jeff Mills and Carl Cox play Techno, which lends itself well to layering songs and lots of looping…very different from playing electrohouse/dubstep/progressive house. My point is that you can be creative without being a turntablist, which a lot of things you are citing as creative are.
Yes. That’s because a lot of DJs in the genres that are prominent in the electronic music scene now are producers first and DJs second. Guys like Carl Cox and Danny Tenaglia (who are amazing DJs) are known for their ability to rock a party as opposed to being known for their ability to make a killer track.
although at the same time, i think that your average non-producers djs (not big names), don’t necessarily feel inclined to be creative either and quite frankly I’m not sure why.
of course thats the most important thing, but I mean generally the dudes who are skilled enough too pull off tricks have been in the game long enough that they have a solid taste in music and know how to read a crowd
Tell that to Bad Boy Bill. Guy made a serious name for himself, and became one of the biggest names in house in the mid 90’s from scratching over house music.
Not this debate again! If you are house DJ and have great track selection skills and solid beat matching skills/play music that gets that gets the dance floor moving you are a great DJ. If you’re an amazing turntablist you’re a great DJ, If you’re really good new age controllerist beat mashing DJ you are just as good.
None of these are better than another they are different styles of DJing. You can be good or shit at both. THE END
I agree with most of what you said. However, I think the term “DJ” is too broad as is. A DJ to me is a person who can beat match, and has more of an ear for music and knows what people want to hear. Depending on the genre, i’m impressed in a club/bar when a DJ is playing some songs I know being a DJ. I think the guys doing the real artistic stuff are more producers. For example, Avicii, Deadmau5, Alesso, Sebastian Ingresso. Not only are they producing their own tracks, but they’re taking the real talent of adding new things to the work. Then you have DJ Pauly D, who until recently released a good produced track, but lived solely off of exciting a crowd and playing other people’s music. It is what it is.
as mainly a house DJ and also playing hip-hop, R&B i find it if your going to work clubs you find that these are the main genres that are wanted unless you doing a commercial place that wants party and top 40 (i digress) but the point is that having the ability to change between the 2 top mentioned music genres is paramount and these are the most skilled DJ’s around to me jazzy jeff is the best example.. but if your a house man the live remixing is the real technical skill yes there is a certain level of preparation before you get to you gig but the remix style of James zabiela using ableton and other aof his many gadgets allow him to cross load of EDM genres seamlessly, as for me I mix left to right and cut up using the hiphop style I am no jazzy jeff but i now up my game with live remixing and ableton bongo’s and use as needed to add varaity to how I gig
I agree with you for the most part. But as with the first dj in your example, i find that a lot of guys are sort of satisfied at the point where they can just beat match well and find good tunes. they don’t go out of there way to learn anything beyond that (as far as djing is concerned), even though theres is sooooo much more you can do.
djs number 2 and 3 are using samples and songs made by others to make something new where as number one is just playing other people’s music and beatmatching. That doesn’t mean hes not a good dj, he could be great at rocking parties. but as far as being an artist goes, i don’t really feel that the person is making new art, they aren’t taking artist’s music and making it theres. again, this doesn’t make them a bad dj, but i do feel that djing is an art with soooo many different techniques and styles. when regular djs (such us ourselves) don’t take the initiative to make our sets artistic, it reflects badly on the art imo (such as people just seeing djs as jukeboxes who just hit play)
long story short, imo djing should be more than picking good tunes and beatmatching (even though those 2 things are definitely the most important and someone should be good at those before learning technical skills.
You’re really splitting hairs here, and ignoring the crux of the issue: layering some samples or sounds over some existing track isn’t a legendary accomplishment that deserves commendation, and most of the time it creates an audio mess, e.g., the controllerist movement. Selecting, blending, transitioning, and phrasing create a much more powerful atmosphere, and require much more technical skill, then mashing some effects and throwing some random sounds over a mastered track.
Note that I’m not talking about turntablism, which is a different kind of show in itself, and the act of sound creation using DJ tools. But rather the “creativity” a lot of very loud (read: idiots) DJs express, which usually involves sync-mashing some samples or blip tracks straight off Beatport Play and creating a massive audio mess. “Adding” to a mastered track is usually not a good idea, and definitely isn’t the distinction between an “artist,” and a typical DJ, it’s just a side effect of the MIDI addicted ADD culture Traktor has spawned among kids and nerds in the past few years.
So to answer your question directly, no, button mashers are not elevated as “artists,” the art of DJing has nothing to do with sound spam.
Have you been to a good underground techno/house party?
The guys at these nights usually play between 2 - 4hr sets and create an amazing atmosphere by picking the right tracks and meshing them together to create the perfect vibe for the night. The good DJ’s do more than just play records, they take the crowd on a journey and create something larger - its hard to explain but it is a totally different skill to controllerism or turntablism. Letting a really good track play without messing with it can be more effective.
opinions?
Not this debate again! If you are house DJ and have great track selection skills and solid beat matching skills/play music that gets that gets the dance floor moving you are a great DJ. If you’re an amazing turntablist you’re a great DJ, If you’re really good new age controllerist beat mashing DJ you are just as good.