Need an Ableton controller upgrade. Suggestions?

DJ Gear & Hardware Hardware: Controllers, Mods and Gear
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Need an Ableton controller upgrade. Suggestions?

Hi. My name is David. I’m seventeen and an aspiring controllerist DJ. I currently play clip- and drum rack- based practice sets. The material is in the form of full songs that I mildly sidechain to my drum clips, bass clips I have produced (mixed in key with the songs) and 16-pad soundpacks, primarily of my own production. The method is very mixing-centric and involves many things going on at once of varying volume and frequency.

The gear I used to do this is as follows:

APC Mini for clip launching, clip track mixing and master output volume control

MPD18 (Original version) for soundpack playback

and, that which is in rather desperate need of upgrade/overhaul: a heavily remapped Numark Mixtrack Pro II that is mapped to the following functions:

-Session view song launching
-Overall Mixing (Faders and EQs)
-Crossfading between songs/soundpacks
-FX control
-Soundcard

Now, on to the prospective replacements. The Mixtrack was my first controller, and it’s good for a very beginner setup. I’m looking for something hopefully with a similar layout, such as the S4, however my concern there is that I want to ditch jogs if possible, as they would not be terribly useful in the type of ableton setup I’m running. In simple terms, my preferred criteria are these:

-It should have a general DJ midi controller layout like the S4, DDJ-SX, or similar.
-It must (of course) be a midi controller.
-It should have a reasonable quality soundcard.
-It MUST have four channel strips with three-band EQ, faders and Filters. Preferably a second gain stage as well.
-It should have a standard FX section (four knobs and four toggles).
-It must have reasonable build quality.

I am most seriously considering getting an S4, but I have considered APC40 II and DDJ-SX2. My budget absolutely maxes at $1000 USD and I’m fine with remapping something to within an inch of it’s life. Any other suggestions? Does anyone else control ableton in a similar way or use it to similar purpose? I haven’t saved all the money just yet, so I do have some time before I’m chomping at the bit to find the right thing.

Thanks guys. I know it was a bit of long-winded post, but I wanted to be thorough. I appreciate any suggestions anyone has.

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I’d get an Xone K2 in your case. Maybe a Z1 if you madly want a crossfader and only two channels. Or an APC 40 because you’ll have enough controlls with that one for ages (you would need an additional interface unless you want to use the Mixtrak purely for that).
Remember when you are custom mapping everything in the end it’s just about the quantity of knobs, faders, buttons and encoders.

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You need to look up an artist/teacher called Tom Cosm. he has a fairly new set-up that would suit your style perfectly.

Yours sounds like a fun set-up, mate - but I have to ask - why are you looking at DJ style controllers like S4’s and S8’s and mixtracks?

You sound like you’ve got a really good grasp on what Ableton Live is capable of - and i think you might be limiting yourself a little by using a DJ style controller. Ableton allows you to think outside (WAAAAY outside!) of teh “DJ” box, so why put yourself back in that box with a DJ controller?

Sounds to me like you could really use a controller with some knobs and buttons on it…

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I completely agree with Patch here, it seems like a completely wrong move that you are going to regret. I’ve got an APC 20 and it’s perfect for my Ableton live escapades. I have tried to use my S4 in Ableton but it absolutely sucked. But second hand S4 MKI’s can be found for as low as 300$ so that wouldn’t be an immense impact in your budget.

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D’you know what? A Pioneer DDJ-SP1 would be a neat little controller to sit in the centre of your set-up…

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With a little bit of clever Midi > Keystroke conversions using Bomes MT, you could even set-up the navigation knob and buttons for mouseless navigation in Lives browser…

I bet you could get one in teh US for around the $200/$250 mark. That would leave you with budget left over to get a controller with the channel strips…

What about the Novation launch Control XL:

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I would agree with these guys and say a dj controller like that would be a little limiting… id check out the new akai midi mix controller for the faders and eq knobs, an akai lpd8 for effect control and an audio interface such as the NI audio 10… that would allow for room for expansion in the future as well as all those are well in your budget.

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Patch hit the nail on the head, as usual with Live questions.

What about the Vestax VCM-600? I F’N love that controller. It is bomb proof and laid out nice.

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If I were you, I’ll probably take a vcm 600 and an external soundcard… If you have Firewire/thunderbolt you should consider a Focusrite Saffire or Clarett series. :wink:

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Sounds like you don’t care about jog wheels so skip the S4s and such; I’d do a VCM as recommended above or the APC40 and put your money into a nice sound card.

Alternatively, you may be able to find a good deal on a Korg Zero4 or Zero8 which will cure your sound card woes as well as give you lots of flexibility both digital and analog. I think they both require firewire though which is a drawback but otherwise they are beasts and would probably be a lot of fun as an Ableton controller. But you will miss the buttons you’ll get on an APC for clip launching etc.

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Thanks everybody for the help and sorry for the late response. I for some reason thought there was a glitch and it hadn’t posted.

The VCM600 looks very, very much like what I’m looking for- thanks guys. I want to try and avoid getting pioneer because even used it is very expensive for what you actually get.

I’ve been evolving the setup to be more clip-based, taking bits and pieces of songs and mashing them, etc… The MIDI mix looks like another good option. Thinking about it even more, I probably would want to go as modular as I can to be able to wrap around space constraints (although it’s gonna be another few years before I can even stick my feet into a club at all, I’ll be heading to college in only a little over a year).

The original reason I wanted a “normal” DJ controller was because I felt like the mixtrack was a good “central control station” for my setup; and I kept fantasizing about NI releasing an $800 version of the S8 with no screens. I totally get you guys’ points though. And all-in-ones are unnecessarily bulky; even the S4 is pretty big.

Thanks again. I’ll probably end up getting a VCM600. Cheers!

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I found that a 4 channel mixer plus a launchpad is a simply yet very effective setup. I mapped my DDJ SX’s mixer to Ableton (mapping just the mixer not the decks) and my launchpad is really fun. I chop up songs into the clips and pretty much use like a dj setup. The Launch Control XL is ok, I feel the knobs are to small and to close to each other to use live, I would always catch the other knobs and turn them by accident.

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I would only recommend the Zero8 when using Mac/OSx.

Firewire was giving problems with someone I knew who was based on PC.
The above mentioned firewire interface posed him with great problems. (Yes challenges we were not able to solve at that time.)

Please don’t get me wrong, because I like that piece of kit. :slight_smile:

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I’m not terribly surprised - even on Macs firewire can be flaky. I seem to recall hearing things about Zero8 PC issues years ago but not the details. Definitely google these issues before investing in any kit that old – Google Search