running maschine with traktor, what’s the point when you your can use an F1?
title says it all I think.
Two uses as far as I can tell:
To fire off samples live
As an on-the-fly step sequencer
It is definitely nicer doing live finger drumming with the machine pads but how many people really incorporate live finger drumming (not cue point juggling) into their sets? Its commendable if you can I guess… I don’t just don’t so don’t wanna lug the maschine around just for that. Also I can’t help but think its a bit of overkill just for one shots or cue points, my opinion/personal pref is that a midi fighter is more portable and its arcade buttons better suited for that purpose.
The on the fly step sequencer is kind of cool but after playing around with it a bit I found myself repeating the same patterns. Therefore I really think you could just figure out what type of fills you like and have them looped up already as a loop on a remix deck i.e. snare rolls etc
For firing off quantized loops I gotta say I prefer the F1, although I haven’t played around a lot with trying to do that on the maschine, maybe someone can enlighten me… For sure I can see that Ableton is ultimately great for this buuuuuut my (highly specced) Windows 7 PC sucks for keeping midi clocks synced, and having tried every permutation of the following they all tend to under up drifting like a mo fo:
Traktor / Maschine Standalone / Maschine VST / Ableton / MidiPal as a hardware master clock source via DIN cable
My conclusions
screwing around trying to sync midi clock just to recreate the quantized loop playback functionality of an F1 with Maschine is pants, F1 is better suited for the purpose
I prefer to use arcade buttons or the F1 to trigger one shots/cue points
If you look at most of the big techno djs using traktor most of them are using maschine for example hawtin and liebing they are looping 3 or 4 tracks in traktor at once and making something new then they are using the maschine to bring in percussion patterns that they are creating on the fly (using the maschine step sequencer) . i dj the same way (i’m nowhere near the level of hawtin he’s incredible) it allows me to be a lot more creative rather than mixing last 1:00 of track A into the intro of track B.
He seems mainly to be using it to add one bar of snares or kicks on top.
My thought was that if you find yourself doing the same type of one bar fills over and again then just loop em up and stick in a remix deck. Then that saves the hassle of bringing along the Maschine to the booth, wiring it up, routing it somehow and syncing the midi clock.
Also how many different percussive elements does one need access too for one dj set, 5 kicks, 7 snares?, the maschine library is great but just like preparing a virtual ‘crate’ of music one would surely like to have at least a guideline for what kick snare etc to use on top. Assuming having already made such a decision how much more beneficial is it to use Maschine or just have patterns already. You think Ritchie is auditioning different types of kicks in his headphones before deciding which one to use repeated twice in a one bar loop?
Pretty cool if you can pull this off as a style of DJing especially with the looping three traktor decks at once. Over my head for sure, but pretty cool nonetheless.
Also if mainly using as a step sequencer surely there are other hardware drum machines that could be integrated at least equally as well?
Guess it doubles as a normal midi controller which is useful, and if you already have it for production then why not…
The f1 will d a lot of what most people use the Maschine for. Maschine still does more, but if you find yourself only scratching the surface of what Maschine does then go with the F1.
Well, already have both, more just interested to hear what others actually do with it live, why a preference for the maschine over what I think could for the most part be done with an F1?
I can see for me its overkill to use Maschine live, not much gain for the extra hassle I already mentioned. Althought it does look kick ass sitting there cycling away in step sequencer mode…
I personally use the F1 in a live set and Maschine in the studio.. But it all depends on how often you play live and need the use of the large pads and features on Maschine.
I’d set up drums and percussion on Maschine and loops on the F1 if you’re willing to go all out!
I’ve been saying that since before I got my Maschine. The only time I’ve ever DJ’d with it was just for myself…when my girlfriend lived 70miles away, it was the weekend we were at her place, and I didn’t want to pack up my X1s and a mixer. Now, I don’t really use it like that because I’ve gone back to SSL, and I don’t want to run Live just for a MIDI clock.
If they ever get good tempo controls for the thing, I’d probably start using it “live” again. But right now, it’s just not worth it unless it’s the core of what you do.
Maschine’s home is in the studio. But, honestly, if you want to do the live production thing and are already using sync, it’s probably the easiest groove box to get going alongside your DJ kit, which is why Hawtin uses it……it’s an evolution of Decks, Effects, & MC-909.
Realistically, though, I think Maschine’s “live” home is doing live production……and most of the people who want to do that are probably going to wind up more comfortable with Ableton Live………it’s a lot easier to finish a track with Live than it is with (just) Maschine (IMHO), if nothing else.
Interesting. Can you elaborate your feelings on this a bit more?
Last year I ended up dropping cash on Maschine because after toying around with a pirated copy of Ableton, I just felt like I couldn’t wrap my head around it. I had full intentions of buying if I liked it, but for some reason, it just seemed a bit foreign to me. This is also after doing production in all hardware based studio (Roland XP-80, Korg MS 2000, Roland 303, and an MPC 2000XL [hence the perfect fit for Maschine for me] for years before hand though, so maybe that was an initial bit of culture shock for me. Either way, very interested to hear your view.
I’ve mapped all kinds of things to Maschine for use in MIDI-mode in Traktor.
“rotating platter” LED feedback
DJTT Instant Grat
pad pressure FX
cue points and loop control
Loop Recorder
Preview Player
But the only thing I find myself using while gigging is some of what I’ve mapped to the “Knobs/Screens” area
folder selection
C&D EQ
FX units on/off
I have reserved 2 pages of pads on both my Maschine and Mikro for full Remix Deck support assuming NI makes good on their statements to make them map-able.
I play with others a lot - Maschine is an exceptionally powerful instrument in this case.
I disagree! Mine come with me everywhere. Just like you go on to say, it’s great for playing along with DJ kit.
He very well could be. I mean, one can.
Just as one can prepare a remix kit, one can prep his samples and kits. I’m very organized about it, and have many, many non-factory samples and kits. It’s really easy to load anything and everything you have prepared straight from the hardware (patterns, kits, samples, VSTs (especially NI VSTs, which are well integrated - browsing one’s patches and their presets is easy), effect multis, projects (which can just be collections of these elements rather than full tracks.)), so I don’t find myself behind a computer screen much.
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It doubles as a pretty sweet -not just normal- MIDI controller, and in such a way that my mapping(s) are literally only pressing-shift-control away. I think someone made a video for Dubspot in which he played both the Maschine VST and controlled Ableton, switching back and forth.
Most people I’ve seen using Maschine in their DJ setup don’t really do that much. They may tap in a snare loop or kick loop. But it’s really not even worth doing. I guess it just makes it more fun for the DJ but the music isn’t really enhanced. Is someone really going to say, “wow, that basic snare loop he just tapped in is really rocking this club!”
I think unless you are doing a Jeremy Ellis or Araabmuzik type of routine, you might as well just stick with an F1.
I watched that video and I guess you had to be there. Seems like you could buy $100 worth of loops and put on that same show. Maybe it was the sound quality but all I heard were basic drum beats and a few fills.
But in the end it’s DJ’ing, do it however you want and what feels right. Some people will like it, some people won’t.
it’s really just up to preference, and if you’re having fun, and you’re paying attention to your crowd still, they should be having fun. If you’re bored out of your mind just mixing from track a to track b and it shows, then nobody is gonna have fun.
If you’re mixing tunes, jamming on top of the tracks with basslines, stabs, kicks, snares, hats, vocal drops, etc, and having a blast, the crowd is gonna have a good time too.
If someone brought a 909 or 808 with them would you say, “Why did you bring that? You could’ve just made a bunch of 909 loops and left it home.” Or would you be stoked to see them play it like an instrument?
It’s all about expression, if you find it easier or more fun to prep loops and use an F1 then go for it. For me, I enjoy the fun of having a musical idea and making it happen on the fly. I just find so much inspiration while playing out and have moments where, “Oh it would be awesome to have a conga loop just at this part here…”
Maschine is fantastic. Fantastic. It’s also just a groove box. I love mine. I wouldn’t give it up for the world. But it basically doesn’t have any level meters that are worth anything anywhere in it. It’s effects are sub-par. It’s routing is limited. And it doesn’t have that many slots for effects, especially when you consider that “mixing” inside machine means that you lose one slot per sound, one per group, and one on your master…just to manage levels (and maybe also do EQ if that’s where you want your EQ in the chain and have the right plugin). Plus, there’s no way to see more than 1 meter at a time when you’re working that way, which is less than ideal to the point of being a huge PITA.
Basically, using your studio as an example, it’s a great replacement to the MPC. And since it can host plugins, it replaces the synths as well. I think it just falls apart at also being a mixer. Part of that is that it barely knows what mono is. Another part of it is that NI really seems just not to believe in level meters that actually say anything.
Run into a DAW, and it’s phenomenal. It’s just not a complete studio. Whether you like other daws or not is a separate issue, but they can all be full studios in and of themselves (minus IO, of course). Basically, a whole host of design choices culminate to make it really easy to compose and mix something entirely in Maschine that just winds up a too-loud, muddy, overdriven mess. And it’s harder to do than just doing it right in something else.
I LOVE Maschine + a DAW (I use Pro Tools) better than anything else I’ve used. But I’d drop Maschine before I’d drop the DAW for working in a studio. For use live………I think it’s good enough as long as nothing goes wrong with your set, but I’d still prefer to run it through something else (Live, Pro Tools, or a console) because it’d be faster to change things if you let Maschine concentrate on what it does well (sequencing, “creating”, and effecting sounds) and use something else that actually mixes well instead of trying to get Maschine to do both.
The thing about it is that it doesn’t fit with every kind of music. For some styles, a few extra drum hits will change the groove of a song in an interesting way.
If you listen to what’s mainstream now (dubstep, electro, etc.), you’re right. And if you spin the same music I usually see controllerists spinning, there’s no point. If you’re a drummer (or have a very good sense of rhythm) and are spinning the right music…a snare groove can dramatically change mood.
But, honestly, I think I can say the same about every single technique that I’ve heard, read about, tried, seen, etc. on DJTT. IMnsHO, it takes a lot of skill and a lot of preparation to add anything to just playing the right track at the right time and have it actually better than the set would have been without the tricks.
And most of the time when I see things like Hawtin’s use of Maschine or a lot of cue points and loops, I find myself thinking “well……if you had to do that to keep my attention, why didn’t you just play a better track?”
So, the point of having Maschine set up to do things like that is to capitalize on being a good enough musician to take something that was already going to be awesome, and push it just that little bit farther. If you do it right, people won’t know you’ve done anything at all. And there are very few people I’ve seen pull it off.
I think that’s a great point. The genre has a lot to do with it and like you said, a lot of DJTT forum threads get derailed because people come form different genre viewpoints. Something for me to keep in mind when I reply to threads.
I’m using X1, F1 and Maschine controlling a 100% traktor internal mix. Maschine is a Traktor controller as well as synced ‘Maschine’. Remix decks and Maschine have differences. Maschine has detailed swing, groove and mix control you don’t get with remix decks. Maschine grooves can be tailored to any tempo and feel … elements muted, tuned etc. Maschine is covering all kinds of duties from groovebox/drum machine to headphone/preview/FX control/Filters in my setup … too numerous to mention. It all works. F1 is great with the remix decks and also extremely handy in MIDI mode. All 3 controllers compliment each other well (with a little custom mapping). I have fun with this rig. Just the remix decks and maschine can keep me amused for hours. The combination is a very deep groove machine with all sorts of possibilities to explore. Maschine is the ideal tool for creating custom Remix loops and sets. It’s so deep I haven’t begun to even scratch the surface. I’ve only just moved onto a new laptop that has the grunt to deal with it all. Almost scared to install Komplete on the new system. I may not sleep for days … weeks …
Regarding live use of the step sequencer that is mainly my point, it looks awesome but how much does it really add? and is it worth the extra hassle… and indeed it does seem lend its self better to techno/tech house/minimal kind music not dubelectromoombahstepcore etc.
Have seen some guys rocking them in small club/bar gigs and thought it twas a little bit overkill when I can see how stuff that they are doing could be done pretty easily without sacrificing much on an F1.
That being said, one thing I am interested to know is, are people actually using it in place of a remix deck somehow?
i.e. start looping sample, stop looping sample, quant on, quant off, grab sample from what is playing on a traktor deck and then do something with it on the fly… It would be pretty cool if one could pull off some sort of an on-the-fly sliced ‘grab’ of the a couple of bars and then fire them off in a quantized fashion either looping or as one shots (like in traktor when you hit hot cues or trigger samples with the ‘quant’ function on). Guess that would require some fancy audio routing and lots of computing powwaaa…
It requires routing, but not that much power at all.
What you’re describing is super easy in Ableton - with an audio track with the Audio From option set to the deck you’re sampling from - it’s easy to punch in and punch out and trigger the loop/one shot you’ve grabbed from the track all quantised. It would be perfect with the APC/Launchpad style script NI put out for the mkII (and the original?) or, you know, an APC.
One could do this if he split routed his deck’s output to Maschine’s inputs… I think, depending on what you would want and what your setup is, it would be different case by case.
You could certainly record to a pad and then play it back - I don’t know about doing that in exactly the same way as the Ableton case, but you could recompose with the step sequencer.
im going to sound like a fan boy saying this, as this has been my favorite purchase this year and i know ive chipped in on some threads to sing its praise - but the only drum machine ive ever had fun using over some playing decks has been a machinedrum. 16 step programming with only a one bar pattern, really easy to vibe with turning on and off step triggers to control the direction you want build things up or down. messing with maschine or an mpc just felt like it was easier to record the loops like you said. keep mind never done a mix like this but its been closest thing ive had to feeling a good vibe bringing in a drum machine over a playing deck
